Poor behaviour by presumptively able bodied people replying to threads in this forum.
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 220
Poor behaviour by presumptively able bodied people replying to threads in this forum.
What the **** is up with people coming onto disabled issue threads to try and prove the people involved "aren't really disabled"? Why on earth does every issue now come with someone taking time to say "he seems to be embellishing what happened". Why are able bodied posters from the rest of the site dropping in here to instruct us on what they think the threshold is before a person gets "perks" for being disabled.
Why do we have to waste so much time having to educate people that "disabilities are variable and cover many different issues and Air travel tend to impact across a wide range of what someone has problems doing". Why do we have to constantly educate people that we might not like being in a wheelchair, but in almost all airports it's the only accepted way for a disabled person to get through security without issues. Why do we always have to explain that an apparently able bodied person may have "hidden disabilities" when they come here to complain about "The fat guy stealing perks". What is their problem with a tiny number of disabled people getting early boarding, or getting priority for certain seats.
Maybe it's some kind of weird territorial behaviour that this group of "Others" are taking the "perks and benefits" they associate with having elite status with their airline? Can't we have this area to talk about what our needs are, and swap hints, and warn about issues with particular airlines/airports, without the Frequent Flyer Elite butting in?
Why do we have to waste so much time having to educate people that "disabilities are variable and cover many different issues and Air travel tend to impact across a wide range of what someone has problems doing". Why do we have to constantly educate people that we might not like being in a wheelchair, but in almost all airports it's the only accepted way for a disabled person to get through security without issues. Why do we always have to explain that an apparently able bodied person may have "hidden disabilities" when they come here to complain about "The fat guy stealing perks". What is their problem with a tiny number of disabled people getting early boarding, or getting priority for certain seats.
Maybe it's some kind of weird territorial behaviour that this group of "Others" are taking the "perks and benefits" they associate with having elite status with their airline? Can't we have this area to talk about what our needs are, and swap hints, and warn about issues with particular airlines/airports, without the Frequent Flyer Elite butting in?
#2
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,822
We need to be patient and educate people about those with disabilities. It is what it is.
#3
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Central Texas
Programs: Many, slipping beneath the horizon
Posts: 9,859
I understand the OP's reaction (if not completely his level of aggravation). Obviously, for DeafFlyer whose disability is self-described and for me, with increasing hearing impairment (likely service-connected, but increasing as I grow older), the "marketplace's" reaction/capacity to meet the needs of the hearing impaired is modest. Obviously, the public capacity to well-address, unawareness, and sometimes cynical rejection make life miserable for many with a disabilities, some of them hard to recognize.
On the other hand, having spent almost half a century in a series of "management" positions, all involving substantial clients, customers, or candidates for one of those, the OP should realize that a substantial part of the negative public actions he (?) describes have been brought about by previous encounters with those - far too many - whose claimed disabilities are largely pretense, based upon deceit, selfish disregard for others, or the product of self-destructive neurotic personality disorders.
Add the broadly held perception that regulatory agencies and the courts have occasionally sought to cross a "Bridge Too Far", and there's a large often unsympathetic public out there unlikely to respond to well-intentioned, but amazingly clumsy attempts at "education".
Sadly, often efforts of the disabled and the good intentions of regulatory agencies to address those cries for relief actually end up inspiring such dramatic and widespread public reaction (and ridicule) as to do harm. We'll have to wait to see how the "Swimming Pool Lift" regulations are addressed and enforced in practice, but I suspect that they will rise to occupy a place in legend and lore, likely to discommode the public to an extent far greater than they empower the disabled.
On the other hand, having spent almost half a century in a series of "management" positions, all involving substantial clients, customers, or candidates for one of those, the OP should realize that a substantial part of the negative public actions he (?) describes have been brought about by previous encounters with those - far too many - whose claimed disabilities are largely pretense, based upon deceit, selfish disregard for others, or the product of self-destructive neurotic personality disorders.
Add the broadly held perception that regulatory agencies and the courts have occasionally sought to cross a "Bridge Too Far", and there's a large often unsympathetic public out there unlikely to respond to well-intentioned, but amazingly clumsy attempts at "education".
Sadly, often efforts of the disabled and the good intentions of regulatory agencies to address those cries for relief actually end up inspiring such dramatic and widespread public reaction (and ridicule) as to do harm. We'll have to wait to see how the "Swimming Pool Lift" regulations are addressed and enforced in practice, but I suspect that they will rise to occupy a place in legend and lore, likely to discommode the public to an extent far greater than they empower the disabled.
#5
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Rio Rancho, NM - USA
Programs: DL, UA, WN, Amtrak, Hyatt, Accor
Posts: 1,793
OK, I'll bite. How does accommodating those in wheelchairs inconvenience able-bodied people? The overall tone of your post is hostile to people who are "different" by being handicapped in any way.
#6
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Unfortunately I can answer your question. Last week we were at a hotel which filled in their pool rather than pay to install a pool lift. Nobody wins when hotels make that choice.
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
Wirelessly posted (Samsung Galaxy S: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.6; en-us; SGH-T959V Build/GINGERBREAD) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)
I am quite sure he was not talking about disabled people in their wheel chair.
Sadly, some if not many, able bodied people unscrupulously use provisions enacted to ease difficulties faced by disabled people.
No one is saying that everyone in a wheel chair is a scammer, but that some people are.
People who are disabled are not the ones scamming, pretenders are.
I knew a person drawing disability benefis for a bad back privately working for a roofing contractor, whi was also his father-in-law. Sixty minutes or 20/20 did a shoe on this many years ago.
Originally Posted by Dianne47
OK, I'll bite. How does accommodating those in wheelchairs inconvenience able-bodied people? The overall tone of your post is hostile to people who are "different" by being handicapped in any way.
Sadly, some if not many, able bodied people unscrupulously use provisions enacted to ease difficulties faced by disabled people.
No one is saying that everyone in a wheel chair is a scammer, but that some people are.
People who are disabled are not the ones scamming, pretenders are.
I knew a person drawing disability benefis for a bad back privately working for a roofing contractor, whi was also his father-in-law. Sixty minutes or 20/20 did a shoe on this many years ago.
#8
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: WAS
Posts: 70
As a Deaf person, I am also patient with hearing people and frequently explain things to them, but sometimes I don't want to, you know? I think that is part of the OP's frustration - just having to be patient all the time, and sometimes it boils over.
#9
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: United MP
Posts: 7,822
Sometimes that gets tiresome, though. It shouldn't always be the disabled person's responsibility to educate others, we have other things to do with our lives than constantly explain what it's like to have a disability.
As a Deaf person, I am also patient with hearing people and frequently explain things to them, but sometimes I don't want to, you know? I think that is part of the OP's frustration - just having to be patient all the time, and sometimes it boils over.
As a Deaf person, I am also patient with hearing people and frequently explain things to them, but sometimes I don't want to, you know? I think that is part of the OP's frustration - just having to be patient all the time, and sometimes it boils over.
#10
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DEN
Posts: 1,962
I'm ok with it. The hotel can choose not to have a pool rather than choosing to discriminate against some guests. And then guests can decide to stay somewhere else if a pool is very important to them.
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,104
As to the OP, yes, it gets tiring sometimes, having to educate the able-bodied, but I figure these fora sere multiple purposes:
1. Giving fellow travelers with disabilities information to make the experience easier, more pleasant, and more comfortable all around; and
2. Educating the traveling public in general about disability travel.
#12
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,735
Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear in my original statement. We were at the front desk of a hotel which still listed a pool in their advertising, but when my son found out they no longer had a pool and I found why, we went elsewhere. This was a Best Western in Vermont, sorry I don't remember the city because we were on a rather casual road trip, and just stopped when the lodging looked promising (and pet friendly). From that hotel we drove on to Burlington and stayed at the Quality Inn, which does have a pool, but not yet a pool lift.
Last edited by CDTraveler; Aug 12, 2012 at 8:07 pm
#13
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,541
I can sympathize with the OP, I'm Deaf myself so just by looking at me people might not recognize my disability until I point it out... Sometimes people think I'm just lying and taking advantage of the system but it is what it is...
Patience I can haz.
Patience I can haz.
#14
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Programs: Delta frequent flyer Gold Medallion Status
Posts: 876
It is almost impossible to "educate" a person who has already developed an opinion. We tend to stay loyal to our opinions. The only thing that will really change these people will be if they, or someone they love, develops a disability. You kind of have to know someone personally before you release your prejudice.
Sad. I remember all those years when I could walk. Our children were young, and when we saw disabled people I never hesitated to point out how fortunate we were because we could walk. Instead of able-bodied people counting their blessings, they waste their time and emotional energy being critical of us, and challenging our status.
Sad. I remember all those years when I could walk. Our children were young, and when we saw disabled people I never hesitated to point out how fortunate we were because we could walk. Instead of able-bodied people counting their blessings, they waste their time and emotional energy being critical of us, and challenging our status.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,104
It is almost impossible to "educate" a person who has already developed an opinion. We tend to stay loyal to our opinions. The only thing that will really change these people will be if they, or someone they love, develops a disability. You kind of have to know someone personally before you release your prejudice.
Sad. I remember all those years when I could walk. Our children were young, and when we saw disabled people I never hesitated to point out how fortunate we were because we could walk. Instead of able-bodied people counting their blessings, they waste their time and emotional energy being critical of us, and challenging our status.
Sad. I remember all those years when I could walk. Our children were young, and when we saw disabled people I never hesitated to point out how fortunate we were because we could walk. Instead of able-bodied people counting their blessings, they waste their time and emotional energy being critical of us, and challenging our status.