"The 17% is a service charge, sir, it is not a tip."
#16
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Portland
Posts: 11,218
I don’t like the idea of tipping at all. It isn’t the customer’s job to pay the staff, it is the employers.
All tipping does is create an entitlement which leads to many people in those jobs doing shoddy work and then demanding a tip. I’ll tip someone if the service deserves it. If the service is just ‘average’ then to bad, no tip for you.
All tipping does is create an entitlement which leads to many people in those jobs doing shoddy work and then demanding a tip. I’ll tip someone if the service deserves it. If the service is just ‘average’ then to bad, no tip for you.
#17
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Portland
Programs: AS MVPG75K, Boardroom, HH Diamond, National Executive
Posts: 351
I was under the impression TIPS was actually an acronym for:
To
Insure (although I think it should be ensure but hey, that screws it up right?)
Proper
Service
So I agree with just not going there...it's crazy to have a serving professional to solicit further tip. What's the point? You get crappy service and you still get hosed for 17%?
Glad I moved out of SF, that would drive me nuts to see owners of these places charging for the health care bill...it called the cost of doing business. Move the darn place to Daly City if you're that annoyed.
To
Insure (although I think it should be ensure but hey, that screws it up right?)
Proper
Service
So I agree with just not going there...it's crazy to have a serving professional to solicit further tip. What's the point? You get crappy service and you still get hosed for 17%?
Glad I moved out of SF, that would drive me nuts to see owners of these places charging for the health care bill...it called the cost of doing business. Move the darn place to Daly City if you're that annoyed.
#18
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: A small town in North Georgia
Programs: DL Platinum Medallion, AA
Posts: 1,560
Did the server mention the service charge before the OP ordered, or did it just appear on the bill? I would probably have left before ordering if it was mentioned first. Either way, I would have told the manager why I would not be returning, and that dissatisfied customers don't suffer in silence.
#19
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Maine
Programs: United Silver, HH Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 1,388
Not to start a big fight (though I might), I am convinced that I receive better service in restaurants in the US because of our culture of tipping if and only the service is good. Servers in the US will hustle and be friendly for because their wages are directly related to the service that they provide. I travel to Europe twice a year (Italy, France, Germany, Switzerland, etc) and the Caribbean once a year. I have eaten at a wide range of restaurants in those countries and I have found the service to be, more often than not, stiff or brusque. I believe that waiters in Europe do not fawn over me because they are already getting a decent wage and do not need more scraps from me.
#20
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in your villages
Programs: legions, foreign and domestic
Posts: 1,472
Do you want to be fawned over? I find it unseemly. I like the Euro model a lot better. Bring me food, bring me beer. No need to fake smile and be all over me while i'm eating.
#21
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,486
Did the server mention the service charge before the OP ordered, or did it just appear on the bill? I would probably have left before ordering if it was mentioned first. Either way, I would have told the manager why I would not be returning, and that dissatisfied customers don't suffer in silence.
I did NOT know that I was going to have to listen to begging afterwards. Most US restaurants that add a service charge also sneak in a blank "tip" line on the charge card receipt, but I've not seen it pushed beyond that before.
#22
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upstate, NY - SYR, ITH, BGM, ELM, ROC
Programs: AA EP
Posts: 3,338
UGH!!! The whole "service charge" thing is like the damned "fuel surcharge"... If it is an expense related to providing the service, then they should role it INTO the price...
If it is unrelated to providing the good/service, and is indeed instead of a "TIP" then it should be OPTIONAL...
Any restaurant that has a required "service charge" for providing SERVICE then pretty much forfeit the right to expect any kind of significant TIP on top of it...
If it is unrelated to providing the good/service, and is indeed instead of a "TIP" then it should be OPTIONAL...
Any restaurant that has a required "service charge" for providing SERVICE then pretty much forfeit the right to expect any kind of significant TIP on top of it...
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Portland
Posts: 11,218
It's not about being fawned over, it's about getting efficient and knowledgable service.
#25
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Southwest CT
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#26
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: MD, USA
Programs: SWA, UA, Delta, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 272
Probably not kitchen staff, but the water refiller people. In CA they don't do tipped wage and minimum wage is $8/hr from what I found online. $8/hr for kitchen help isn't much, but I'd hope any good steak house pays kitchen staff above minimum wage.
17% is an odd number. I typically tip more than that, but autograt me and that's all you get.
17% is an odd number. I typically tip more than that, but autograt me and that's all you get.
Choice of Dessert
"A 17% taxable service charge will be added to your bill. This allows for a fair distribution to non-management employees between the service staff (tipped employees) and the kitchen staff (non-tipped employees). This distribution shows the entire staff how appreciated they are.
Any additional tips will stay directly with your server.
Thank you for your understanding and patronage.
The Petri Family "
#28
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#29
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Join Date: Oct 1999
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Our companions, who were local, said that the proprietor of this restaurant had been an outspoken opponent of the measure and had placed it on the bills in order to continually call attention to its absurdities.
Therefore, my response was to deduct it from whatever I had thought the waitstaff was worth that evening and think no more about it.
#30
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA EC Gold
Posts: 9,236

I agree with you 100%. Is there any legal recourse if you refuse to pay the full 17%?