Consolidated "Kobe Beef" thread
 

Turning Japanese
What's up with Kobe beef?
BY DAVE FARIES
[email protected]



Imagine a film set in the badlands of Japanese cattle country.
Our movie follows a bunch of tough hombres--John Wayne, Gary Cooper, Randolph Scott--fending off Mothra and the occasional kamikaze, massaging the herd after a few beers and gathering around the campfire to sing karaoke while "Cookie" whittles up a sushi tray. Instead of chasing down an errant cow, Cooper would save face by committing ritual suicide.
Beats the hell out of Yul Brenner and The Magnificent Seven.
The Western as a film genre, the cowboy, the cattle drive: These are American creations. The steak house, too: clubby rooms, big hunks of meat, martinis and (on the patio) cigars. Yet much of our understanding of the American West and of American cuisine is based on myth. Cattle drives were inefficient. Just as soon as corporate ranches could fence in their property and establish rail lines, the cowboy era fizzled. Over the past 20 years, some 500,000 independent ranchers sold their cattle, returned their Wranglers to Kmart and quit the cowboy life.

We point this out because the hottest item at steak houses, burger joints and hot dog stands is Kobe beef, a Japanese creation. Kobe is delicate and deeply marbled. It grades better than prime. Critics describe it as beef foie gras, the product of careful tending, daily massages and a diet of sake--at least according to tradition. Such stalwart establishments as Pappas Bros. Steakhouse, Chamberlain's, Abacus and Al Biernat's serve Kobe beef. Tei Tei Robata Bar carves up Kobe in the traditional Japanese fashion. Who's Who and Nana offer Kobe burgers. The Dralion grills up the steaks and soon will add burgers to the menu. Various establishments have experimented with different cuts, including prime rib. And Kobe hot dogs will soon hit the market.

"We've done everything except Kobe fajitas," says Judd Fruia, manager at Pappas Bros.
The only place, it seems, that does not serve the super-prime beef is Kobe Steaks, although the restaurant uses up quite a bit of space on its menu and Web site describing the provenance, diet and kinky massage techniques favored by the lucky critters.
Like most traditional items, the myth of Kobe beef is more popular than real. True Kobe comes from the wagyu breed--literally "Japanese cow"--fed and slaughtered in the prefecture of Kobe, Japan. Most of the stuff on the market today, though, is produced in Idaho, Washington, California and Australia. "We sell a lot of our beef to Japan," says Mark Hoegh, director of marketing for YamaBeef in Mabank, Texas.

"You can't really tell the difference, and obviously you don't have the travel costs," Fruia says of the local version.
Ah, yes. Cost. The stuff is expensive. When a salesperson foolishly offered to treat the Burning Question crew to dinner one evening, we ordered Kobe at Al Biernat's and then bailed--excused ourselves, rather--before she glanced at the bill. Pappas Bros. sells it for a whopping $15 an ounce, with a 6-ounce minimum. Al Biernat's asks $54 for a small (by Texas standards) fillet, a Kobe-Angus blend from a Texas herd.

Yes, most of the Kobe-style beef sold in Dallas restaurants originates in Texas. And very little of it comes from pure stock.
"The majority of the stuff in Dallas is a Kobe-Angus cross," points out Travis Henderson, chef at Perry's, "and most people don't know that." Indeed, very few establishments serve true Kobe beef, even in Japan.

"Most of what is sold is a cross," Hoegh acknowledges. Yet he considers that a good thing. The commingling of Angus and wagyu creates a larger animal, yielding more consistent meat. "It's hard to explain, but it's just as good," Hoegh says. "I think most of our customers think it's full blood."

They use pure wagyu breeding stock, he says, which lends flavor and marbling to the meat. "The Angus is just along for the ride."

We're almost certain Bobby Knight caught heat for saying something like that once.
OK, so it's not from Japan, it's not pure wagyu and there's no Japanese version of Jimmy Stewart riding herd over the desolate plains of Kanto. At least they still massage the cows, don't they? And feed them beer?
"Even in Japan, the only ones getting a massage are those meant for carcass competitions," Hoegh says.

Instead, American ranchers confine wagyu cattle to the smallest pens allowed by federal standards. As compensation for their narrow space, wagyu and crossbred cattle feed on the mash leftover from beer production. "The alcohol has broken down the grain, so the cow doesn't have to work as hard to digest the grain," says Brad Garsee, chef at The Dralion, explaining the benefits of such a diet. In addition, Hoegh points out, the cattle "get addicted" to the feed. Leftover alcohol in the beer byproduct attracts them and keeps them on a regular feeding schedule, and a steady diet lends consistency to the end product.

It can't hurt the breeding process, either.
So, what's up with Kobe beef? (That is this week's Burning Question, after all.) Let's see...drunken cattle and indiscriminate sex create a damn good piece of meat.
It's a wonder Budweiser doesn't build an ad campaign around it.

dallasobserver.com | originally published: June 12, 2003


http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues...l/1/index.html

While in Kobe, Japan several years ago, my partner and I had decided that we would enjoy a nice Kobe steak dinner at a well known upscale restaurant that specialized in preparing Kobe beef. Expecting that the cost would be high, we were a little shocked when out final bill, without drinks, came to just over $700.00, the singlemost expensive meal my partner and I have ever had between the two of us.

After paying, we rationalized about the cost and eventually became comfortable with it - it was a 4 course meal, so not only was the Kobe beef cost included, but the foie gras appetizer and other side servings. Would I do it again, perhaps so, the beef was the most tender I've ever had, even compared to the best Prime cuts served at some US restaurants that I've been to.

One of the FUNNIEST things I've read in a long long while!! Well done, SweetWillie!!

http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdi...um/biggrin.gif

Best wishes, Dave

[This message has been edited by bseller for UBB coding (edited 06-12-2003).]

[This message has been edited by bseller (edited 06-12-2003).]

It is pretty incredible stuff.

I've cooked the US Kobe at home and the results were quite delicious.

The huge Japanese market near me, Mitsuwa, has sliced US Kobe for sukiyaki and shabu shabu. Have yet to make shabu shabu, but have prepared sukiyaki plenty of times, beef-lover friends I've prepared it for, take a taste and just ssssmmmmmmmiiiiiiilllllllleeee http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdi...orum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdi...orum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/dining/ftdi...orum/smile.gif

One of the salient features of Kobe beef is the distribution of fat criterium. There is some grading method that requires fat to be very finely and evenly distributed over the meat - something like 100+ specks of fat per square centimeter.

It may be tender and tasty but it certainly isn't lean.

That's probably the reason they don't post the fat percentage as with other meats in CA.
I've cooked the local version of rib-eye and hamburger from Andronico's in SF. It's very good, very tender, and very fat.

Is it possible to buy genuine Kobe beef from Japan in the US?
 

Is it possible to buy genuine Kobe beef from Japan in the US?

Sankyu!

Definitely. Not cheap though...

Some of the major chain Japanese supermarkets used to stock it (Mitsuwa and Nijima) and i'm sure that there's a beef supplier who can sell it to you..

Google?

it was indeed banned for a while, but is now allowed.

Vicente Foods in Southern California (zip 90049) sells the real deal: Wagyu Beef @ $160.00 per pound. They even do occasional tastings. This is the same beef which is featured at Cut, the Wolfgang Puck steakhouse in Beverly Hills (they charge $160 for 8 oz's). I have spoken to the reps from the Waygu Steaks and they say that this beef is only sold in SoCal at Vicente Foods and served at Cut and Melisse. I specifically asked about Japanese beef sold on Sawtelle Blvd in Japanese markets and was told that the beef sold as "Kobe" or Wagyu" was, in fact, Japanese-American hybrid beef.

How about Kobe Beef barbecue from Fiorella's Barbecue of Kansas City? Try here for starters....http://www.jackstackbbq.com/product.asp?pn=PKKE2088 There are other packages available. Just do a search.Enjoy!

This is true, however the American hybrid is actually superior to the Kobe original, at least to my taste, as well as being much healthier and cheaper. It is indeed a hybrid (Angus was added) and is high in unsaturated fat including oleic acid, so it can reduce LDL cholestrol levels. It is much healthier than regular beef (also almost all of it is raised as organic and hormone free, fwiw).

I also prefer the Kobe American hybrid as it seems to have more texture. To my taste, the Wagyu, sliced very thin and cooked quickly tastes a bit slimey. The reps from Wagyu would have us believe that the Wagyu is the healthier beef.

Wagyu (Japan, Australia, US)
Kobe (Japan, and AFAIK only US)

Kobe is a particular type of Wagyu, raised a particular way.

AFAIK its a small percentage of US "Kobe" that actually attempts to follow the Japanese tradition.

I'm sure many sellers are misleading.

I would just suggest not paying astronomical prices unless you can be assured of exactly what you are paying for.

Agree completely.

Always wondered why Kobe beef in North America tasted different then in Japan. I prefer the actual Kobe because it is richer in taste. I initially thought it was the water or feed but now I just feel ripped off.

Wagyu is a type of cattle (unique breed with a distinct genetic identity). Kobe is a city in japan that used these cattle (ironically as work animals and not for meat, until less than a century ago). All beef sold in US as "kobe" or "wagyu" is descended from one of 10 bulls that were imported into the US about 20 years ago. These 10 bulls were initially bred with Angus cows; some Wagyu cows have since been imported into US for breeding. So the 1st generation was 1/2 Wagyu, 1/2 Angus. Subsequent generations increased the Wagyu percentage. Different breeders have a different genetic base (depends upon which bulls they had access to and how they bred subsequently). Thus there is quite a bit of variation in meat characteristics between different ranches in the US. The best ranches are better than the Japanese original; the worst ranches are worse. So you just have to shop around until you find the right source of meat. For the next couple of decades there will be enough genetic variation between different herds that there is no consistency in US Wagyu meat quality. However 97% of the Wagyu beef in the US qualifies as Prime (the highest USDA rating), vs. about 2% of Angus beef. I too noticed the big variations in quality and was interested enough to investigate; glad I did, now I can eat great beef at 1/5 of the japanese price.

http://www.calsky.com/lexikon/en/txt/k/ko/kobe_beef.php

Wagyu > Tajima > Tajima-ushi > quality criterion to become "Kobe"

I had the true Japanese Wagyu NY Strip at Cut last weekend and it was amazing! I also tasted the Amercian version and it was quite tasty as well.

Yummmm! ^

That is exactly the same beef available at Vicente Foods (San Vicente and Bundy in Brentwood). They will hand cut it to your specifications and have various cuts of beef available, including ground chuck (which I think is under $100.00 a pound :) )

"This is A-5 Kobe beef..."
 

I was in a restaurant on South Padre Island, TX last week and one of the specials was some sort of platter which contained Kobe beef. The platter also had assorted shellfish and was about $100.

I asked the waiter what grade it was, he checked with the kitchen and reported back a few minutes later that it was A-5. Now, I've had Wagyu in Japan and my understanding is the A-5 is pretty rare. Is it even possible to get A-5 in the States, and any thoughts on whether the chef/waiter was just full of himself and it was actually a lower grade?

I didn't order it (which was probably for the better) and had an otherwise mediocre meal.

for years true Kobe beef was not allowed to be imported. Last year in Palm Springs at the La Quinta resort, there was a kobe beef appetizer, I inquired (as I always do) if it was waygu, the waiter was very proud to state that it was real kobe, even brought out a certificate explaining that it was true kobe. The food & bev director as well as the chef came out to see how we liked it^

Long way of saying that yes Kobe is allowed to be imported now, I couldn't answer the grade question.

A5 is a japanese wagyu rating correct?

while kobe/mishima/etc are from that specific region.

good places will have "A5"/etc on the menu. not sure about kobe/mishima/etc though. could ask about what Sweet Willie mentioned. >

^ what kind of appetizer/pricing?

This place in Tucson claims to use Kobe beef but when I asked if it were true Kobe, I was told its Imported Kobe Cattle raised in Washington St.
http://www.foxrc.com/zinburger.html
not quite what I expected

I've had A5 kobe beef at Urasawa and Cut down here in LA. The one at Urasawa was better but IMO the beef is basically just way too rich and buttery. It's like eating foie gras...it melts in your mouth and is wonderful but because of sensory overload you can only take a small amount.

I can't imagine eating like a 16 oz steak of kobe beef...so the small 4oz or 6 oz portions are fine for the table.

Wolfgang Puck's Cut in Vegas has the real deal. 10 ounces of rib eye and as someone indicated previously, after about half it was getting to be too much. But that didn't stop me from finishing it :).

How much did that steak set you back mate ?

Wolfgang Puck's Cut in Vegas has the real deal. 10 ounces of rib eye and as someone indicated previously, after about half it was getting to be too much. But that didn't stop me from finishing it

Menu price was $200. For me, free ;).

As an occasional visitor to S. Padre, that would have been my reaction. I can't recall anything memorable (except bad memories and flatulence) from most of the restaurants there, and would tend to stick to simple, visually verifiable fresh seafood, barbecue and TexMex.

The place ain't perzactly chic.

I'm pretty sure that is typically the case in the U.S. It's not just the breed of cattle, but the way they are cared for that contributes to the flavor of the beef. I just don't think anyone in the States has the patience to raise wagyu beef like the Japanese can, though some good attempts are made.

2-2oz seared slices, melted in our mouths, $90

Kobe Beef Carpaccio
 

I was looking at some of the menus for Las Vegas restaurants. I have always wanted to try Kobe beef. I noticed several of them offer both a sirloin or a rib-eye, but they also offer carpaccio. I love carpaccio. But, the whole thing with Kobe Beef is the marbling, isn't it? Does Kobe Beef actually make good carpaccio or is it a waste?

it might be good, but that won’t be the best way to have some. You need the fat to render. I cook A5 a bit more than a regular steak.

There's a lot of difference in what you get depending on what exactly you're getting. I suspect that the vast majority of "kobe" beef sold in the US isn't. A lot will have some kind of Wagyu-type cow, maybe sometimes actually imported from Japan (but my guess would be less than 0.01%). When in the US the term Wagyu/ kobe is used, it's mainly referring to the A4/ A5 high fat type cut where you really do want the fat to be rendered down. Assuming that you're looking at a super fatty carpaccio, I'd like someone to at least take a blowtorch to it if it's not going to be cooked.

I suspect that is the most accurate statement I've read. Unless beef is directly imported from Kobe, it's not Kobe. Wagyu is the meaningful term here. It does irk me when you'll see some yocal advertising Kobe burgers when it's simply some blend of wagyu.

I've had A4/A5 carpaccio and it's not my favorite. IMO, an A4/A5 strip is best served sliced length-ways, pan seared, and covered with a pasteurized egg yoke.

I didn't realize this thread was here. Hard to believe I missed a thread averaging a little over 1 post per year.