Outside of my travels to Italy, the best Italian food I've had has been in the family owned restaurants in Boston's North End. Without a doubt. ^

Italian immigrants didn't settle in the south with or without your trailer trash with which you seem to identify.

For real Italian cuisine, you go where the Italian immigrants spread their roots--to New York (much of Brooklyn), Boston (the North End), Philly (south Philly), and Chicago. These areas I put in parentheses aren't exactly in the high-rent districts. :D So those of you with axes to grind against NYC and italian food, think again. Try a family owned restaurant in Bensonhurst. Ask anyone here who has been on dhammer's Brooklyn Reality Tour about authentic italian cuisine they enjoyed with Dan as their leader.

The best italian food I've had was in EZE.

Olive Garden is good comfort food. It along with Red Lobster is just good food for the general masses. Moderately priced, with large portions. I'm against giving *any* company special tax breaks just to come in. If they want to enter the marketplace, then let them compete on a level playing field with the other restaurants.

America does it's "thang" with most food that comes in. Chinese, Mexican and Italian are all changed to match what the locals want. Many people don't even know the truth behind many of the restaurants they go to. Thinking that Outback is a real Ozzie restaurant, or Carrabas is a family run restaurant.

Many of us who know Italian food are indeed natives so whatever your views of "NYC" life is, those are your views. They may not reflect reality for a native. I find it bizarre that distinguishing Italian cuisine from chain cooking makes one snooty. Your view I guess.

That said, your comparison with barbeque is a good one. You can't find good bbq in New York. In fact, smoking pits aren't even legal in the city. So how can anything be authentic. Likewise, you aren't going to Olive Garden for any remote sense of authentic Italian cooking. In terms of "cuisine" it's on par with the likes of Applebee's. :D

I've never been to a Red Lobster. So let me ask....given it's name, can I assume that one can order a boiled lobster by the pound (1 - 1 1/4 lbs, 1 1/4 - 1 1/2lbs, 1 1/2 - 2 lbs)? I would assume with lobster in it's name, this is a standard entree on the menu.

It's been a good 10 years, but I don't recall a live tank in the lobby. I may be wrong, but I think lobster there is limited to frozen tails. I'm pretty sure the shell was red, though. I doubt that the majority of customers go there to eat lobster anyway. At the local branch, I would guess that some form of shrimp dish is the most frequently ordered.

They bake a cheesy, garlic biscuit that I recall was the best thing I was served there.

Corporate welfare is immoral. If Olive Garden is such a cash cow there's no possible justification for tax breaks. Sorry, but having more dining options in town is not sufficient reason.

Analise, I think I may not be clear in what I'm trying to say. I am a native NYer, having been born and raised in Manhattan, and in the low rent area. Although I don't live there now, I am in a close enough suburb that I get into the city often. I agree with all that you've said. I was replying to JS's post about snotty, overpriced Italian restaurants in NYC. As far as I can see from reading your posts, we're on the same page. Especially with your tag line! ;)

But, the citizenry wants Olive Garden. What difference does it make if we give them a tax break or take up a collection and mail them a check?

I realize it is anti-competitive and that does bother me, but OG isn't going to print special menus with lower prices for one restaurant that has a lower cost of doing business and they would have certain contractual obligations in exchange (like remaining open for a period without regard to profitability).
The government exists to serve the people. How better than to serve them dinner? :D

I fail to see the immorality.

Well that's different! Go Yankees!! I just had to wonder why certain people here assume that authentic italian cuisine has a direct correlation with expensive restaurant bills. Authentic doesn't mean more expensive.

I agree with you. If towns are willing to throw tax incentives at corporations to locate within their town limits, what company would say no to that? If companies demand them, if a town wants to pony up their residents tax dollars, don't blame the company. Blame the elected politicians. I don't see where morals come into play. Perhaps they see greater employment opportunities for their residents which in turn creates tax dollars. Perhaps they see tax revenues in the sales these restaurants make and thus money spent now will come back three-fold.

Haven't been in a long while, but I do know that in the mid-90's there was still a lobster tank at the Red Lobster in south Indianapolis.

It was yum indeed.

Red Lobsters I've been to in North Carolina all have lobster tanks as well.

And yes, the cheesy garlic biscuits alone are enough reason to go there. :D

I was in little Italy in Cleveland last week and we ate at a small family style restaurant "Maxi's" ? There were nine of us and we ordered 6 or 7 apps 2 salads and 3 small Pies. Food was incredible and we had a ton left over. The food bill was approx $100 and the bar bill... well that's another story.

Since RL once had its biscuit recipe posted on its website (I don't see it there now), a Google search will probably turn it up. And I think I have seen some RL's recently with a lobster tank.

Bamavol - Why don't you take the initiative (or put your money where your mouth wants to be) and open your own restaurant using your own "authentic italian" recipes? OR...if OG is so bad and there is no other option eat at home! If your "small town with a race track" happens to be Talledega, you could always drive the short distance to BHM to Leonardo's. It is the best in the state by far and reasonably priced. Most of us patrons are of an acceptible weight and would probably not ruin your dining experience.

1. The town is Oxford, AL. It's about 20 miles from 'dega. I live in an unincorporated part of Calhoun county.

2. Successful independent restaurants in the area serve barbeque. I've seen a lot of independents open and close in 4 years, in part because the owners didn't understand the market. The only way I can demonstrate that I'm any smarter than those guys is by not opening an independent restaurant that doesn't sell barbeque.

3. I can cook good italian food at home. I share it with a few friends. I travel to places where I can get a decent Italian restaurant meal. I even enjoy an occasional lunch at the nearest Olive Garden in Douglasville, GA. I'm satisfied. My fellow Calhounians are much more deprived and are clamoring much louder than I for their OG.

4. I already drive to BHM once a month to shop at a decent grocery store. I enjoy a glass or 2 of Chianti with my italian food. So does Mrs BamaVol. That is incompatible with the drive home from BHM.

5. I love my neighbors but, for whatever reason, the average weight here is well above the US norm. It is a statewide phenomenon, but seems to be less widespread (pun intended) in BHM than the more rural parts of the state. What I do notice in BHM, as I wander around the Summit, are all the thin middle aged blondes with their noses in the air and a pinched look on their faces as if they perpetually smell something bad. I'd rather dine with the chubbies in Oxford.

Some possible corroboration: Last fall I had lunch at an "Oriental Buffet" in Birmingham (which was unexpectedly decent!). Along with the things you'd expect there was also meatloaf, fried catfish, grits (for lunch?), and turnip greens.

Fine upscale cuisine it ain't, but as chains go Olive Garden ain't bad. I swear I never saw as many food snobs as I've seen on FT. :D

Again, what does "authentic" have to do with 'upscale'? The best Italian food you'll ever have outside of Italy will usually come from a Mom and Pop place in Bensonhurst, the North End or South Philly. Upscale, they're not. Authentic fine cooking with low down-to-earth prices is what they are known for.

What I do notice in BHM, as I wander around the Summit, are all the thin middle aged blondes with with their noses in the air and a pinched look on their faces as if they perpetually smell something bad. I'd rather dine with the chubbies in Oxford.

Now THAT's funny! The ones that migrated down here all live in Fairhope...my wife calls them The Mercedes Ladies.

Next time you're there, though, notice one other thing. They all have small mouths, and you know what they say... :D

My friend's family down on Ono Island call them the blue plates.

Now somewhere earlier someone suggested Bucca de Pepa as a place to get a good Italian meal from a chain. Bucca is good if you go with a group of 4 or more. It isn't really a good place to go if you are alone or with one other. The meals are just too big, and if I ate one whole "meal" there on a regular basis I would definately be a customer of size.

I don't have a problem with the chain restraunts or as I call them institutionalized slow food. The advantage they have is that I usually know what I am getting when I order the meal. It is the familiarity that makes them work. However, for a chain to work it is necessary to reduce the meals to the lowest common denominator. Thus you trade "authenticity" for consistency. Sure you can usually find a better local restraunt in almost any place, but sometimes when you are on the road in a strange place you don't want to risk it.

Hear Hear!

- HF

Fine with me, since I eat out at a "fake" Italian restaurant as often as there are holidays. @:-)

Olive Garden is great for the soup, salad & breadsticks.

Olive Garden certainly is not what I consider to be Italian food. Of course, I'm from Utica, New York (central New York area), where there are family-owned Italian restaurants on every corner, so I know what Italian food is suppose to be. I live in a small rural city at present, and they do not have an Olive Garden, but I know many people who are dying for one to locate here. These people, of course, are the ones who go to Ponderosa for a great steak dinner. There are a few family-owned Italian restaurants; some are okay and some aren't, but nothing like what I can get in my hometown.

Last time I went (actually it was take out) to Olive Garden was this past Valentine's Day

I can make better pasta than they do, but my wife didn't want to deal with a dirty kitchen (I am a rather messy cook :o)

The salad, dressing and breadsticks are good, pasta is OK, but I ordered dessert.

BIG MISTAKE

Their desserts taste like cold lard, very tasteless, and just plain awful

Next year I am cooking and hiring Merry Maids instead ;)

^ I love their salads! I often eat at OG for lunch but mainly stick with soup and salad. It is not a restaurant I would choose for dinner. Those of you in NYC also need to remember that good Italian restaurants in many areas are few and far between if they even exist. Which might be the case here.

Food snob
 

Who cares? If you don't like it, then don't go. But dont' be a food snob with the hordes who do like it, even if you don't approve.

True Chinese food bears no resemblance to what is offered here. Americans buy what Americans like, and if it ain't exactly authentic.

It's clear that the community wants it and likes it, and is willing to pay for it. That means JOBS and all of the goodies associated with it.

What did you order? Last visit, Mrs BamaVol ordered some sort of lemon cake. I snuck a bite and thought it was pretty good. I don't know that I've had anything else off their dessert menu.

Chocolate Lasagna

Sorry, but I can give my opinion just like Mary2e, tonypct, rec, and HobokenFlyer have. No TOS rules were broken. ^

Speak for your own experience not everybody else. I don't know where you live but one can get the most authentic, and inexpensive Chinese food right in Flushing. I forgot....only "snobs" take the 7 to Flushing. :D

If you read all of my posts instead of a scattered few, you would know that I'm one of several here who questions why anyone would think that a community's offering tax incentives to any business can be deemed "immoral". If the town can make more tax revenue via incentive, more power to them.

It's got to be the water, Cookie. :D

rrz518, if I started a thread and stated that I just had the best BBQ I've ever eaten, right here in NYC, I think I'd get a ton of "food snobs" from the south and midwest who would jump all over me. And they would be right to do so, even if I did like the BBQ in NYC.

I love eating at Olive Garden. The soup and salad deal is the best. Service varies. Was there this past Sat and my 2nd bowl of minestrone soup had hardly anything in it for the 1st time. Experience mostly good. Best tiramisu as well. Some may not agreee but that's okay. Hope Olive Garden and your city can work something out.

Well said !!! I dispise them as well.

Hehehe. I think it's funny all the "foodies" out there will won't mind going to a P.F.Chang's, but won't step foot in an Olive Garden. To me, it's the same...Americanized ethnic food. And I'm a genuine HKG-born-naturalized-American, so I know the difference between real Chinese/Asian and Americanized versions. But guess what? I like it all...just like millions of other average Joe Shmoes. It doesn't have to be authentic to be tasty. Trust me, the majority of P.F.Chang fans won't want to eat fish cheeks, bird's nest, chicken feet, pork feet or beef tendons...that's about as authentic as it gets (and also pretty tasty if you ask me)! :D

I can't speak about PF Chang's as I've never been there. I assume it's an expensive chain restaurant? Money has never been a variable in this very interesting thread.

As someone who grew up eating macaroni & Grandmom's sunday gravy, I find Olive Garden a culinary wasteland. However when I have talked to friends of Chinese descent they find Pei-Wei or PF Changs an abomination and I'm sure if any of my Mexican friends went to a Chi-Chi's they would be equally unimpressed.

But for those who do not have their preferences fixed by earlier experiences with these kinds of food - especailly when they are accompanied by memories of specail times with family and friends (I have given up eating red sauces in restaurants because they always fall short of my Grandmothers) - these restaurants offer a chance for some exposure to a different cuisine and can easily become personal favorites.

One quick note on Italian restaurants - I often find the experience and food is inversely related to price (and snootiness). I can not tell you how many times I have gone to some "hot" yuppy Italian restaurant - OC is littered with them - and been disappointed. My best Italian meals have invariably been at family run restaurants - usually run by someone of Italian heritage - where a full meal could be had for less then $10/person.

One other note -

OC's rule of restaurants when traveling:

North East - Eat Italian or Jewish
West Coast - Chinese or Mexican
Northwest - Asian or Seafood
Texas - Steaks or BBQ
Southeast - BBQ

Always avoid:

North east - Mexican
South - Italian or Jewish
West Coast - Italian - particularly pizza (CPK gets a pass because it does'nt even try to be authentic)
Texas - Chinese

You forgot one in Texas, at least, far west Texas ;)

Incredibly enough there is excellent Chinese food in Juarez