Places I eat, servers tell me they have to ask. They go to the kitchen and come back with an answer. Sometimes favorable, sometimes not, in which case I make another selection.

Same. If it isn't listed in the menu description, servers go into the kitchen and come back with an answer. In some cases, they send the manager or the chef to talk to me.

While I agree it could be programmed to do this, I haven't seen this yet the few times I've used ipad ordering. Seems like for places where menus change, it would be hard to keep up, but would work fairly well for restaurant chains where someone at corporate could update all at once.

Since I don't have allergies, my menu questions might be harder for an ipad to answer. Granted, I don't have questions all that often. But as an example - I see a $15 salad on the menu. Is that entree sized? All of that can be programmed of course, but since someone will likely have to carry the food out anyway why can't they first stop by and ask if I have any questions? And if they're going to answer the question and carry out my food, the ipad doesn't really save the restaurant much money.

Now, if we're going to a model where robots deliver the food and bus tables, that could work. But I can't see that as the type of restaurant I frequent. Maybe everyone should move to the sushi conveyor belt model :).

How about an iPad / tablet that has a “more questions? We can send out a live person” button. That could work.
just like old phone trees had a directory with that “0” option for Operator…

Except that isn't really saving much money if you still have someone there to answer questions and deliver food.

Depending on the locale, a hamburger and a glass of Bordeaux (Cru Simple) can easily run $25 with tax and tip at a fast casual restaurant, perhaps 40 at a "fine dining" restaurant (presuming they would even serve a hamburger).

The same meal costs at most $5 at home, of which $3 is for the one-sixth bottle of Bordeaux. The other two bucks pay for the ingredients to the hamburger.

This multiplier (5x) seems to be the norm at restaurants versus dining at home. That adds up quickly, meal after meal.

When I was a kid, we were financially sound (my Mom even had some help) and lived near a large city, but we RARELY ate out. Neither my parents alone or with another couple, nor as a family. Only when on vacations or on rare special occasions did we go out to eat. This was in the 1970s. There were weekly dinner/ bridge parties with neighbors/ colleagues, but eating at a restaurant was once per quarter at most. The restaurants were accordingly more rarefied -- liveried staff, formal service, etc. Sometime in the late 1980s the whole US disposition toward eating out changed, and it became MUCH more commonplace. Even today, my 90-something parents treat going out to eat as unusual.

I will surmise that spending money freely (on expenditures such as dining out) was probably rare for those who either lived through the great depression a.k.a dirty '30s (few in numbers these days) - probbly such as your parents - or their children and perhaps even grandchildren. The event made a very profound and lasting impression, instilling a great sense of thrift for a couple of generations. The great recession some 80 years later brought some of that back which resulted in some restaurant bankruptcies. Perhaps good times and easy credit (through credit cards, the use of which was still a bit of a rarity in the early '70s?) precipitated the right environment for a new slew of restaurants to cater to the mass market, much as cruises used to be exclusive.

Yes they both vividly remember The Great Depression and talk about it every day. St. Louis for one and Kansas City for the other, but the tune is much the same.

My parents both had "charge cards" from the mid-1960s onward, but those were issued by the local department stores. For times when there was something big planned, my Dad would go to the bank and withdraw many hundred dollars in cash. He once received a $500 bill in such a withdrawal, which I had never seen before (and haven't seen since now that I think about it). Restaurants of course would accept local checks in those days. The cash situations were when we were travelling out-of-town as a family.

When I first started to travel as a teenager, I did not have a credit card; I would take American Express travelers cheques -- this was the early 1980s. You would countersign your own signature at the redeeming bank. I first noticed credit cards in the late 1980s, my own was in 1987.

Along Highway 101 by CA-156 which is the road to carmel:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...0ce916eb1.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...8c4d6c4e7.jpeg

So frugality was their driving philosophy in life? Understandable for those who experienced poverty and hunger (not that there was a food shortage let alone a famine).

As a matter of historical interest, any U.S. bank notes greater than $100 have long been withdrawn from circulation (a least for 20 years if not longer, probably 30+) in an attempt to curtail money laundering. Any such are collector's items.

TCs. Haven't seen any for a while (couple of decades of not more) but I do seem to recall observing people still using them in the past decade. Like rotary dial telephones, a lot of younger people probably have never seen one.

That was around the era (or maybe later) when credit cards were being heavily promoted on U.S. university campii, certainly it was in 1988. Even Amex (but not DC/Diner's Club IIRC) was in the game (get young people hooked on branded credit, I guess).

In recent years, I've ob served CCs being heavily promoted in places like Thailand and Malaysia which used to be very cash-oriented (perhaps still are). Competing bank issuers provide goodies for using the card at certain merchants and some even have exclusive lounges in department stores.


Back to the subject of server shortages. Was always an issue north of the border and not getting any better.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...m-restaurants/

LOL...ah, while I can appreciate the efficiency automation would bring to many industries, robotic servers ain't gonna do it for me. The only bright side would be one would be spared having to tip, but I'd rather continue our tipping culture in return for human service. While I know very little about restaurant wages, I'd imagine a server in a nice restaurant would earn about $500 per night in tips? All things considered, that's not a bad living, in my view.

By the way, was watching Chairman Powell's testimony this morning, and when asked if eliminating unemployment benefits would increase labor participation, he replied that it was too early to tell.

Zuni is a nice restaurant in Sf and they pondered a zero tip situation. One longtime server really objected and their tips-based compensation was about 80k/year although maybe not 40 hours a week.

I would object too. Not making any judgements or assumptions here, but that's probably a very tax efficient $80k too. I recall some momentum about making a transition to zero-tip dining, but no idea how that's working out.

If I understand correctly, servers have to share a substantial portion of their tips with the backroom (bell, kitchen, etc.). In addition the IRS presumes there is a certain amount of tip income based on bill total: A tip-stiffed wait person may have to pay taxes on presumed income even if they got stiff ed the tip (unless it can be proven).

Lots of rules here
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small...-and-reporting

But, servers, if the tip is received in cash, might lie about what they received when it comes time to file taxes.

I recall that servers can claim a 8 or 10% tip rate. Not sure if this rate is current or not, and I think restaurants are required to fill out more on the total tip amount.

No one EVER has to pay taxes on presumed tips as income. What servers complain about is not being able to hide as much income as they would like or what they used to be able to. The IRS From 4070A is for tracking of all tips and tip-outs to supporting staff. irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f4070a--2005.pdf

I was in this business from roughly 1990 to 2005 and there were a lot of changes during that time. For years 8% was just an amount you could claim and the government was okay with that. Of course, the actual % is/was way more than that. Once credit cards came along, a "house average" was able to be computed (IRS assumed servers were roughly making the same % on their cash sales as their CC sales). Just to be clear, like everything with taxes and the IRS, your own records (on form 4070A) will be enough to substantiate your actual income. What happens in an audit if your self-reported average % is 6% and the house average is 16%? I guess you can try to sell the IRS on the fact that you're just a terrible server but I can't promise that will work out for you.

In the end, sorry servers but you have to pay taxes on your income like the rest of us. And please stop playing the, "I'm paying taxes on money I don't earn," card. It's just not true and it never has been. You can't hide income when it's convenient and then claim you're being over-taxed at other times.

Unless it's business related dining, I'll tip a token amount on my CC and the rest in cash. This isn't to make it easier for "tax efficiency," but rather a courtesy in case the server needed the cash that evening and to ensure the restaurant owner doesn't short change him/her.

RE: Server supply constrained

I'd wager this will worsen, as this morning's retail sales (excluding autos) is up higher than expected even with generally higher prices across the board. As more Americans return to their normal, relatively speaking, shopping habits restaurant demand should rise correspondingly. If they're not up to speed on staffing now, they ain't going to be.

We're probably going to see more of these signs and rising wages.

Given there is trouble with getting/retaining restaurant workers even at places where tipping isn’t a material part of the income picture, the issue with the server shortages is about way more than reliance on tip income and tax compliance with regard to tip income.

A lot of restaurant workers have learned to have a better quality of life with work that doesn’t involve the shift work and income insecurity that restaurant work involves, and so they are doing what rational actors in the labor market do: demand higher wages and/or better working/pay conditions or go with employment in other industries.

In some ways, restaurants would have been even worse off in some places in the US if the COVID-19 unemployment assistance wasn’t as much as it was, since even more of them would have already migrated to other industries and be less likely to look back at working in the F&B service world.

It's not just restaurants are trying to hire people. I see hiring signs everywhere now. Do you want to work minimum wage at a restaurant/fast food or minimum wage at a Bath and Body Works at the mall? There is a small Chinese restaurant near us that opened up in 2019. We used to go once a week to dine in. In 2020 they changed to order out only and only the cook (also the owner) remained working. Now that indoor dining is reopened, I ask if the owner will open indoor dining. He said it is easier this way and people are still buying takeouts. His reviews are based solely on the food and not the service. That is true as I look at the Yelp reviews for Chinese restaurants. A lot of the negative ones are based on services or how clean the place is.

Some of the fast food places near me switched to only curbside, carry-out, or drive-thru and haven't reopened the dining rooms for guests. They have lines that wrap around the buildings for drive-thru service, so I don't think the change hurt them.

Hm, interesting perspective, and one that hadn't occurred to me. If that's the case, then I hope we'll return to a free market where there's price discovery which will help restaurant owners determine the price that will support these higher wages. And, while I'm sure my view on this will be unpopular, if they can't operate profitably, they shouldn't be operating at all.

I can't recall if it was in this thread or another where I recounted tales of a few friends who worked in higher priced restaurants. Some were higher end establishments, and others were moderate to high price but high turnover, such as a famous local crab house. As they became senior servers, they appreciated the flexibility where they could work Friday night and Saturday night, plus maybe once during the week, and sometimes bring home several thousand dollars in a week. That 80k sounds about right, and in some places that's for less than 30 hours a week.

Someone on the Delta boards mentioned they were indeed trying to ramp up the number of phone CS reps after letting way too many people retire in 2020- $15 an hour, you can work from home after your six month probationary period, and full time and full benefits including travel. If you're already doing CS work at Walmart or Target, that sounds like an improvement in job quality, even if the pay isn't much different.

Read an article about McDonald's this morning. They're reporting that applications and hiring is recovering at a faster rate in states that ended the federal COVID subsidy early. That would be about the best evidence I've seen that the unemployment subsidy was a major cause of the labor shortage. Of course, I think we all agree at this point that it's not the only cause.

Local to me, lots of difficulty in recruiting with reports of advertisements for dishwashers at 50% above minimum wage (C$23/hr, when minimum is $15) in a region with very low unemployment. Seems young adults and teens prefer the side hustle of blogging instead of waiting tables or flipping burgers and avoid dealing with COVID-denying patrons..
.
https://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...try-1.24348731

Some restaurant I went to with my wife some half a decade ago now (frighteningly one of the better ones in that primarily retirement community) only offered counter service even back then. It's currently operating as take-out only as the outfit told neighbours who we recommended the place to that the kitchen can't be adequately staffed let alone counter service too: A food order some friends made last week was promised for 20 minutes to get ready but ended up taking well over an hour.

Probably mis-stated it but something to do with the difference between declared tip income and allocation on the W-2.

https://www.quora.com/What-percent-o...taurant-server

The whole premise of that question is the person trying to avoid paying taxes on some of their income. Restaurants can't allocate you money you don't earn and make you pay taxes on it. Despite any actions by the restaurant, a person's daily log of income should be adequate proof for the IRS (this is the reason the IRS came up with the publication in the first place). To reiterate what I said earlier, these questions always arise when servers want to hide income when it's convenient, then claim some unfairness when something starts eating into their, "winnings" ("winnings" being money they had previously hidden).

How I came across that notion of the IRS taxing servers on presumed income is some news article decades ago (mid '90s IIRC) re: tipping (or lack of) by Europeans and Australians primarily: The servers didn't mind that much that the clients didn't tip because it wasn't standard practise in their countries, but were more concerned that they'd have to pay tax on this missing tip. I only filed U.S. taxes for a few years so certainly didn't get any from tips so not familiar with exact U.S. tax filing practices. .The story stuck (at least for me) but I don't remember where I read it. Could have been the WSJ or a S.F. Bay area newspaper..

We stopped at Zoe’s Kitchen for lunch. It’s one of those restaurants where you place your order at the counter, pay and the food is brought to you when it’s ready, There was a sign on the door stating that they would close daily at 4:00 pm, for which they were sorry. No mention of a reason. They seemed adequately staffed at lunchtime (about 2:30).

Totally unrelated, but I visited a Zoe's in Houston for lunch this week. First time I've been there, and I was really impressed with the quality of the food and the portion size. Greek salad with falafel was very good. Back on topic, the one I visited was well-staffed at lunch too. No early closing time.

Zoe’s actually does a lot of their cooking on-site so if you find one with good cooks, they can be awesome by fast casual standards. Unfortunately that’s not the case for all their outposts.

I’ve only been in two. It’s been a couple years since I was in the one at Pier Park II in Panama City Beach. We wore out the one in Asheville last August since it was less than a mile from our AirBnB. It’s every bit as good this year but we’re in a different part of the city. I feel like the menu’s changed in a year but I couldn’t say how. Back home, we’re at least 45 minutes from the nearest. Too bad. I think it’s an excellent chain.

Cava Group acquried Zoe's Kitchen in 2018
 

Some bad news for you:Link: CNBC - Cava looks to convert Zoe's restaurants as it sets its sights on growth in suburbia (March 15, 2021)

I'm not familiar with Cava, but looked them up and it looks more like a Roti than Zoe's. Based on my experience this week, I'd choose Zoe's over Roti any day.

Shortage is so desperate in a somewhat-isolated area near me that some are organising volunteers to work as wait and restaurant staff. It is suggested restaurant operators make a in lieu of wage donation to selected charities.

https://www.coastreporter.net/local-...teries-4217398

That's pretty cool. I spent 20 years in the restaurant business earlier in life and miss it quite a bit. I'm in Hawaii about to open an unrelated business but am on hold due to returning to the mainland in a few weeks. Instead of drinking at noon maybe I should go serve a few :) Something tells me I'm not as good at 50 as I was at 30. Can a volunteer be fired? :) :)

Dairy Queen capitola on saturday was so understaffed that it was drive-through only. The car in front of us had a single ice cream cone.

That's the rub. I can imagine a warning sign saying, "Our Staff are volunteers: Any rudeness or attitude towards them may result is a plate of food dumped over your head" or "Rudeness may result in a pie in our face"

"You've been served!"

David