Can I ferment it? (Should I ferment it?)
 

Have taken up a perfect lockdown hobby, I see it as winter gardening (but with much faster results and rewards). Fermentation. Particularly lacto-fermentation, which requires no more than a fruit/vegetable and salt.

I’d dabbled in it before (been doing so for years, particularly as I’ve needed to learn Japanese cooking - tsukemono) but most of what I had made involved very short curing/pickling times. The part about waiting for a few weeks and letting the food sit out at ambient temperature was daunting... and pretty scary.

Turns out there’s been a quiet revolution over the past ten years, and plenty of curious people who didn’t shy away from long ferments have been plowing on. So, now that I find myself ready to progress there are all kinds of books and resources (have ordered the Noma guide to fermenting, should arrive soon!). What few of those resources really tell you about is what the actual taste of the fermented product is like and whether it is actually worth going to the bother of fermenting a certain food.

Here’s what I’ve been picking up as a comparative beginner:

Some foods need at least 3 weeks maturation to make the fermentation process worthwhile. These aren’t particularly useful for digital nomads.

Others are satisfyingly transformed in just 2-3 days.

One benefit I only realised having started fermenting in earnest was - not only do sour, lacto-fermented foods (eg. Kimchi or sauerkraut) taste really good with the fatty components of a high fat low carb (keto style) diet, they actually reduce the carb content of those foods as the starches and sugars within them are consumed by bacteria.

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Onion - short, only needs 2-3 days. My number one suggestion for anybody looking to try lacto-fermentation. Weigh an onion, chop it up, put it in a clean jar, add 2% of its weight in salt, put on a lid, shake vigorously. Leave it. Shake again after 10 minutes. You can shake it again once or twice a day after that. You can start using it after 2 days, best at day three. MrLapLap LOVES this ferment so we have never had any make it to day 4. Perfect with rice with or without some soy sauce drizzle canned fish.
Taste? It makes onion taste like vinegar pickled onion... without the vinegar. The smell of onion gets stronger the first couple of days as it cures, then on the third day it starts to mellow, the smell becomes less sharp and the inherent sweetness emerges, along with that savoury matured “pickle” taste. MrLapLap says that the ferment makes the onion taste like the Japanese shallot type vegetable; Rakkyo ラッキョウ. As well as being a tasty condiment, it’s an extremely useful cooking ingredient to have to hand - add a spoon to a white/bechamel sauce, or an omelet, cheese on toast, or anything else you are cooking, a spoonful adds a similar depth of flavour as sautéed, sweated onions but in a fraction of the time.

Grapes - short - 4/5 days. Cut X amount of grapes in half, put them in the pickling vessel you are to use. Top up with Y amount of water. Figure out the weight of X(grapes) plus Y(water) add these amounts together and measure out 2% of the total in salt. Tip out the water from the jar, add the salt, dissolve, and pour the brine back into the jar ensuring that no salt is left behind. Push down the grapes in the jar so that they are all suspended below the brine and leave the grapes to cure. They will be ready some time between day 3 and 5, from then on the wine taste begins.
Taste? Slightly salty with a sort of plum (or umeboshi) type sour edge. Gives grapes a kind of “deeper” funkier taste and makes them perfect for a cheeseboard. Somehow “meatier” and more satisfying than a regular grape, what I mean by this is that it’s easier to feel sated from eating them than with fresh grapes.

Celeriac/Celery root - long, 2 weeks. I used the celeriac, apple and mustard seed recipe shown here: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ix-of-the-best
Celeriac is a lower carb vegetable I have a an ambivalent relationship with. It has a leafy celery aroma which I am not enamoured with but a firm, starchy texture I do enjoy. I do not like it boiled but appreciate it roasted. I wasn’t sure if fermenting was going to tame the celery aroma or enhance it. Turns out that the aroma is still very present after two weeks, it retains a fresh, extremely fragrant aspect of the celeriac’s “celeryness”. If I liked celery I’d absolutely love it, but it’s just OK for me. It is good, but not my favourite. I also note a welcome cinnamon quality in the fermented result, not sure if that’s from the apple.

Wow! This sounds so fascinating! I’m impressed :-)

Good information. A couple questions. I’m confused by X and Y. Example? Also I’m guessing the fermenting agent is in the air? Should I turn off my air purifier?

The fermenting agent is lactobacteria, the same wonderful critters that give us sauerkraut, kimchi, yogurt, and many others. I don't know what air purifier you have, but I think they mainly remove particulates from the air. They don't kill bacteria and, if they did, they certainly wouldn't kill nearly all the bacteria in the air. Bacteria are part of the biological background of the world and fulfill many necessary niches. Only certain ones are bad for humans, and we evolved immune systems to deal with those. I think I remember reading somewhere that up to SIX POUNDS of the average healthy adult's body weight is bacteria...

X/Y: LapLap is saying to keep track of the weight of grapes and water you use so you can add the correct amount of salt later (2% of the combined weight of grapes and water).

Here's a nice article on how lactofermentation works: https://www.thespruceeats.com/how-la...-works-1327598

gfunkdave’s answer covers everything. Sorry to make the X and Y values confusing. Was just trying to get away from the idea of only adding 2% of the weight in salt of the grapes if you are adding water also. 2% of weight in salt should include the grapes (or peaches or blueberries etc.) AND the water (or/and juice).

Since the bacteria needed for creating the initial lactic acid environment should be present within the vegetables - there’s a lot of advice out there about using organic foods for this reason, but you might not need it - you shouldn’t have to worry about your kitchen/workroom being sterile, goodness knows I don’t! Just make sure the jars and implements are very clean, your hands too!

Just had the lacto-fermented grapes with a meal. Turns out they pair beautifully with Spanish style ham and cheese croquetas (a very thick ham and cheese bechamel sauce, allowed to cool, coated in eggs and breadcrumbs and fried.)

Will work on my bumper post for fermenting cabbage, still need to wait a few more days.... it’s epic!

Excellent hobby. I'd like to eventually get around to learning this myself. But that aside, it's one of my favorite thread titles :).

My only fermentation experiment has been kombucha. I just completed my most successful batch ever but had to replace parts of my kit due to breakage. I got into a fermentation discussion with a contractor who was by the house for an estimate. He makes his own Kim chi and made it sound pretty simple. I’m up for trying this and anything else LapLap suggests.

I’ve been hearing about kombucha and kombucha scobys for years but have never tried it. Kombu (kelp seaweed) is a staple ingredient in our house and I was really surprised to find out it had nothing to do with steeping kombu or making it into a tea type brew and that it was fungus related instead. Since I’ve practically cut out sugar from my diet (but still have a very sweet tooth!) I’m flirting with the idea of kombucha as I hear that the carbs are reduced by the kombuchification process - as you can see I am entirely ignorant of what it involves. On the other hand, I REALLY like green and other milkless teas so don’t add sugar to these anyway.
What is kombucha like? Is there a reason you got into making it? Am wondering if my kid would be into it.

I ordered some organic ginger last week which should be arriving this Thursday. I was thinking to use it to make a “ginger bug” and try my hand at ginger “beer”. Am a bit nervous about this project, but since we are entering the period of the never ending lockdown here in London, if it’s not now... when?

For anybody who likes the idea of pickling but doesn’t want to do a full ferment, I highly recommend this recipe from Harumi Kurihara for sliced raw cauliflower in a Tosa style vinegar dressing. If you don’t have bonito flakes or dashi broth or dashi broth concentrate, perhaps some diluted Worcestershire Sauce or Fish Sauce instead. This was the recipe that got me to finally enjoy cauliflower, the dressing is sensational. Takes an hour to marinade and keeps in the fridge for up to a week (I’d say up to 4 days)

the recipe is here https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/t...010121302.html , but is incorrect, it should read:
Tosa Vinegar

*1 cup / 200 ml of dashi broth
*2 tbsp soy sauce
*1/2 cup / 100 ml vinegar
*3 tbsp sugar
*Salt
*4 tbsp lemon juice
(Up to two sliced/crumbled chilli or dried chillies)

I’m not sure how I got started on kombucha. Tried it many years ago at my sister in law’s in Sedona. She brews it and drinks it warm. I wasn’t impressed. We were visiting BV Jr #1 in Eugene a few years back and some of the craft bars and breweries had it on tap. We tried several and were surprised at the inventive blends available; generally making use of fruits, herbs and flowers.

Then a couple years back, I started my first Whole30 and kombucha was allowed because almost all of the sugar is consumed and very little alcohol is produced. One year, one of the kids sent a kit to Mrs BV for her birthday and it fell on me (king of the kitchen) to produce the stuff. It keeps getting better and I’m finally mastering effervescence. I have several sons and friends who also make it and we trade scobies and brews and tips. BV jr #1 convinced me to switch from fruit to juice and the last batch was finished with mango nectar and wild blueberries. It came out dry and flavorful and bursting with bubbles.

You can pick up a kit on Amazon for around $40 but friends have made their own for much less. A scoby will run you $7-8. It will reproduce and you shouldn’t need to buy another. Then it’s just the cost of tea and sugar and litmus paper. Two weeks from start to finished product.

Thanks, BamaVol ! That has certainly whetted my curiosity - and appetite. Always thought of it as a dullish, mushroomy tea and it’s only recently that fruit is being mentioned along with it more and more (a LOT really has changed in the past ten years!). Your mentioning of effervescence might be the clincher.
I’ll also have to go and look up Whole30 now too.

Well, you're welcome to try using the focus food of one of the other recent threads in this forum: San Marzano tomatoes: Any discernible differences?

David

Am in Brexit Britain in lockdown - expecting to get hold of EU grown San Marzano tomatoes is at loggerheads with the sense of food insecurity anxieties that led to my taking up food fermentation as a hobby in the first place.

edit to add:
Didn’t realise this “suggestion” was about canned tomatoes.

For the “Can I? Should I?” question the answer seems to be: Nope. The canning process involves high temperatures so, for lacto-fermenting, not a suitable candidate as the bacteria that bring the initial lacto-acid environment will have all been killed off.

I forgot to mention bottles. You would want to acquire a dozen empty Grolsch beer bottles. They’re in short supply here. With Brexit, maybe so in the UK too. These are the green ones with the ceramic stopper. The best way to get them is full. You drink the beer and save the bottles. They provide the best seal and the bottles are stronger than what I originally bought on Amazon. I had a couple of those explode in the night. I think Ball canning jars would work too but I haven’t tried them.

Whole30 is an anti-inflammatory diet that you do for 30 days. You eliminate alcohol, added sugar, grains and dairy (also legumes). I’m not sure it helped much with the arthritis but I lose 10 pounds every time and get to eat all the bacon I want. The main benefit for me is that it got me unhooked from a lifelong sugar addiction.

Love beer, hate lager, and one of the reasons I’d never considered making my own ginger beer or other fermented drinks before is because the possibility of exploding bottles/glass is frightening to me.

But that’s where this should come in: I have a Nick Schmitt type German fermenting crock with a water lock lid - self burping, no chance of an explosion. That one has been full of shredded cabbage since the 19th December. I plan to have my first peek tomorrow as a kind of Epiphany gift - exciting!!!
I got another order in for the alternative kind of German water lock crock (K&K) and that should be arriving shortly - https://kerazo.de/Gaertopf-5-Liter-Form-2
Any ginger bug/scoby brewing I plan to do in that.

Thanks for explaining the W30 diet, sounds like we got to similar destinations but with slightly different routes.

So in a very short time my interest became a habit.

Failures so far have been the fruit fermenting - blueberries weren’t in season nor were they organic and after a few days there was very little bubbling. The flavour did change a bit, but then these weren’t great tasting to start with. Not a success. However, rather than chuck them into the bin I made a quick jam/conserve out of them with some added sugar.
And that’s when even a failed fermentation came into its own. Delicious! If you are looking to add interest to a fruit compote/conserve, put it into a bit of brine for a few days, drain and then start cooking with it. I did the same thing with some not great plums I ended up with. Fermentation went a bit better, but the taste wasn’t what I hoped for, until it got turned to jam. Yum! Anyway, am really pleased to have stumbled on this way of jam making.

Otherwise, the green cabbage turned into sauerkraut beautifully in the German water lock crock pot. A jar of it ends up on the table at most meals and, when cooking, it makes a great hidden ingredient (as does the pickle brine occasionally - a terrific vinegar substitute), adds acidity and umami. Sauerkraut seems to go with any kind of meat and almost any western dish.

Red cabbage is gorgeous fermented and doesn’t seem to get as sour as the green/white kind, so a wonderful accompaniment to fish such as salmon.

Green/white cabbage stems/stalks I’ve been slicing and pickling separately to the rest of the cabbage. 2% of salt as with everything else, but I also add some sliced garlic, soy sauce, lemon peel (very little and with the white pith meticulously scraped away) and a bit of kombu kelp or dashi with it in (this can be omitted, or a teaspoon of fish sauce instead). This kind is ready after 4/5 days and makes a very different kind of “pickle” much more in line with salted tsukemono. This is the type my husband reaches for first when he’s having food with rice.

Have already made a massive batch to be eaten in February. This one has lots of grated carrot, some onion, garlic and plenty of sliced green cabbage. The first mega batch of sauerkraut from just before Christmas is unlikely to last beyond the end of the week. Perhaps it’s because I’ve made a few to eat on rotation but we haven’t come close to getting tired of this kind of pickle, a reminder of why tsukemono of one kind or another forms part of every meal in Japan.

Verdict: an absorbing hobby/interest and far less fattening than bread as a daily staple.