kipper

I think that is part of 1P's complaint. The winemakers and wineries say, "This is what you should taste," when what 1P tastes may not be what you taste, and I may taste something different than both of you.

andyh64000

It was a "guess the wine" contest and the three wines were on the list which was given out as a guideline (I stole the idea from a local winery). I suppose I could have just listed the wines with out any tasting notes but most of the guests were not wine connoisseurs and appreciated a little more detail.

FLYMSY

kipper

Except, to some, they won't taste any of that, or won't know what certain things should taste like, and it can be intimidating.
I think brown leather tastes more like chocolate and black leather tastes more like black licorice.

mjm

Posted this above, but curious about people's thoughts. I wonder how you might feel about the WSET Systematic Approach to Tasting?

kipper

If it involves using terms like black leather and such, I think it will turn off people who know very little about wine.

mjm

Gaucho100K

As many posters here know, I am ITB so let me say first off that I have a "horse in this race".

One of the biggest reasons that the Wine Industry is having trouble keeping market share, losing most of its headcount to Beer, is that many in our industry have made wine too darned complicated. Most wine education is way too formal, full of technical and otherwise jargon that alienate newbies. Also, even if you attend a wine tasting (and not a wine class or course), many times is turns out to be an alienating experience because the "expert" chooses to dictate and "preach from the pulpit". I think very little of wine descriptors for newbie use, I have nothing against them (in principle) but these descriptors are NOT for everybody and their ABUSE is hurting the wine industry... it scares many people into thinking they dont know anything about wine and just push them across the street to some micro-brewery.

In recent years, Wine has gotten to become a "big deal" and people are scared to make mistakes, or to appear ill-prepared to order wines at a Restaurant or serve it at dinner at home with guests. People in Wine need to take this into account, and we must all do our part in making folks welcome and take them step by step.

For someone new to wine that wants to learn, I suggest seeking out a small and ideally owner operated Wine Shop close to your area. Spend some time, tell your Wine Merchant that you are new and want to learn, be frank and open about what you like to drink now and what you have tasted... dont me scared to say "I think Cabernet is too strong", or "I only like Sweet Wines". Depending on your level of interest, try to take notes, dont use any technical words, just take notes that you understand any go back often to read them. Write things as you feel/smell/taste them... keep it as simple as you can, find your own system. Try to buy different wines in different styles and from different regions, go back to your merchant with your notes and discuss what you liked more, and also what you liked less. There is always time to sign up for a wine class, but I think that money is better spent on bottles of wine than on formal wine education.... what you taste and what you write in your notebook, plus the feedback you give (and get) from your Wine Merchant is the best wine education you will ever get.

Give the above a try... and a few months later, the next steps will come naturally.... Wine Knowledge is a journey. Pace yourself and go at your own stride... it is a wonderful journey.

In closing, I will bring out a frequent flyer analogy. Wine is like airline travel.... once you experience high-end wine, similar to when you are seated on the correct side of the curtain, it is very hard to enjoy Economy Class... the same way it becomes difficult to enjoy cheap Wine.....

kipper

I think he is scared to make a mistake, hence asking. Unfortunately, in PA, owner operated wine shops are challenging to find, unless they only have one winery.

darthbimmer

One of the challenges is knowing who the audience is. Many tastings IME are geared toward more sophisticated wine drinkers. Jargon which that audience understands is confusing and a turn-off to novices. Similarly, fine differences between wines may be interesting to advanced customers but beyond the understanding of novices. And certain kinds of wine, like cabernet sauvignon, take a bit more of a developed palate to appreciate. When I'm selecting wines for a party I make very different choices depending on whether I'm entertaining novice or experienced drinkers. Both types of crowds generally like what I pick for them.

lamphs

I highly recommend "Wine for Dummies". There are several versions. Very good to learn the basics, but also a good quick reference.

iceblueshoes

While true, it's sort of not. During a formal tasting, you don't really use "poetic" descriptors because 1/2 the people won't know what the hell you're talking about.
That's the nice fluffy stuff that goes on the back of the label for marketing and driving of sales.

While taste/perception is subjective, there is a point in which people are just wrong.
We can perceive the sky to be blue, but if someone says it's green, they're just wrong. The same way say if someone says that they're getting red fruit flavours from a white wine, which won't be in a wine unless if added chemically. It's simply not in the profile of a white grape. Yes there are some thing that could go either way (minerality) and also somethings I personally struggle with like minerality or flowers in a red wine, but there is a limit.

Check out Taste Buds and Molecules if you REALLY want to dive deep into that. Was helpful for me in being able to justify why certain pairings worked, but felt like I needed a chemistry degree, which I don't have.
There might be a difference, perhaps if a different type of animal is used? No idea.

As for dirty cranberry, I think of a cranberry with a bit of dirt that hasn't been washed.

It's mainly used for marketing to sell a wine and try to paint a picture in your head to give you an idea.

If I say "this wine smells like "fresh blueberry, raspberry, strawberry and cherry with a hint of smoke, vanilla, cedar and dry mud" the picture in your mind should be very different compared to "ripe yellow apple, peach, lemon, yoghurt and butter with a bit of oak". Taste could/should be along the same lines, but is not always the case.
After a while you learn how a wine is made and why you're more likely to pick up certain things in one type of wine vs another type of wine.
It's good to help paint a picture in your mind as well as when describing it to others. Also to assess, if the wine is any good.
Simple wines may not have much going on, but be enjoyable.
On the other hand you could have a well made wine, not enjoy it but recognize it's not your thing. Case and point, me and natural wines. I've only had a few that are ok for me to have more than 1 glass.
We all make mistakes. Life is short. Why stress?
When you get serious about it, you learn where you went wrong and adapt.
Although by that point, you start to hate wine a bit and wonder why you're bothering to do the examinations and certifications...

I didn't pass my somm exam (yes it sucks not to mention the $$$) the first time but learned from my mistakes, concentrated on making sure my weaknesses were improved and then passed the 2nd time. With that being said, even though I passed, there are still a lot of things I need to improve on.
It's a life long pursuit.

Even if you're not hardcore and casual about it, you learn over time. Those of us that do exams, we don't do it after trying 10 wines, we've spent a LOT of time, tasting, studying and serving. You get better as you "practice" more. I wouldn't say it necessarily difficult (especially if you do it as your job), but it requires a lot of time and effort.
Jargon (like slang) is in every type of industry. I'm not going to talk to someone about brix and ph levels that is asking me for a cheap pinot grigio.
Keep it simple and play to your audience. It's about them and not about making your own personal ego feel better.
As we were always told in our class "Look after your guest"

A lot of the tastings I go to (non-trade) are for wine noobs. Which is ok and I can still enjoy the wine, but I hate when people expect me to give a long and detailed tasting note, when in reality there's not much to go on.

When in doubt, serve Champagne.

MSPeconomist

Join a "wine club" (or several) that organizes wine tastings and/or wine dinners; these are often offered at reasonable prices by wine stores. Look also for restaurant (or private club) tastings, classes and wine dinner series offerings. Try to find a compatible group of people who are at approximately your level of knowledge. You don't want to keep retaking the "wine 101" class if you're beyond that level, nor do you want to become overwhelmed too soon by self-proclaimed experts.

JayhawkCO

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Wine Folly, both the book and the blog. Definitely brings wine down to "normal people level". I'm in the restaurant business and am in charge of our wine list, and often still refer to notes found in the book.

Chris

mjm

Some very interesting and insightful comments, thank you iceblueshoes for adding those thoughts.

I find the general discussion here seems to be focused on two things, a desire to describe a whole wine (i.e. its aroma, flavors, acidity, fruit intensity, finish and more all wrapped into one evaluation of good vs. bad, like vs. dislike).

The thing I like about the advanced levels of WSET’s study of wine and then into the MW pursuit as well is a consideration of the component parts, the processes, the adherence or divergence from what nature gave, the zillions of opinions on combinations of these factors, etc. It takes wine to a level that puts it on par with music, art, or cooking. For me that combination of wine as a stand-alone item, then in combination with food, and finally as a product of place is what does it for me. The WSET tasting method allows wines to be compared across regions and times. This is important if we are to understand wines in context. I believe this also enables us to make better pairing decisions and cellar creation decisions. People that see the description of wine as tasting of crushed strawberries, or as having a hint of nail varnish as being described with jargon are just being absurd in the criticism of the language used to describe wine. I agree going further into pH levels and effects of different soils and rootstocks on the acidity of wine is a bit much, but surely everyday words should be able to applied without people getting skittish. Imagine not being able to describe the yeasty characteristics of champagne without using a freshly baked piece of bread product as simile. I did not need to study at all to see how that brought to mind a picture or reference point that allowed me to understand a component flavor of many champagnes.

There really is some very good advice here in this thread by people who have discovered a passion for wine. Each consumer will be different in what appeals to them., I encourage above all to simply try and try again. When these memories become the basis for purchase decisions, then maybe take it a step further. The one secret I can share is that the more you know, when you really have a good database in your head, and end up somewhere that a bottle of something from a grape you have not tried is offered, you will likely jump at that chance, not because you know, but because you do not know yet.