Originally Posted by andyh64000 (Post 29223345)

2013 Sparkman Wilderness Red Blend (Syrah, Grenache, Tempranillo, Petit Syrah)

It brings aromas of dried herb, earth and blue and black fruit that are followed by palate-coating blue-fruit flavors, speckled with barrel spices, showing vibrant acidity.

2015 Terrunyo Block 27 Carmenere

Dark, deep red in color, Terrunyo Carmenere has complex and elegant aromas of ripe red berries, plum, spice and a hint of tobacco. Powerful and concentrated fruit flavors reappear on the palate caressed in sweet tannins. Full in the mouth with great structure and a lingering finish.

2014 Justin Cabernet Sauvignon

Dark ruby purple core lightening to medium intensity at the rim with moderate staining on the glass. Aromatic black fruit of cherry and blackcurrant jam, baking spice, dried leaf and sweet tobacco. Full bodied with bright black cherry, blackcurrant and berry fruit with an underpinning of oak barrel accents on entry. The mid palate shows continued fruit with savory herbal notes, mint and a hint of violet. The finish is clean, long and layered with lingering dark fruit surrounded by soft chewy tannins balanced by crisp acidity and subtle floral notes.

2014 Hedges CMS Blend (Cab, Merlot, Syrah)

Aromas of cinnamon, sweet plum and earthy pomegranate with hints of dried tobacco leaf, vanilla and dark cocoa powder. On the palate are flavors of ripe raspberry, milk chocolate and dried sage. Bright entry, full juicy mid-palate and a graceful finish with apparent and pleasing tannins. A nicely balanced wine, with enough acid and tannin to make this a more serious, longer lived wine that will go well with full flavored food.

2012 Alexandria Nicole Jet Black Syrah

Whole berry fermentation leads the way for this deep and dense black in color Syrah. There’s an energy driving the wine, immediately apparent in the sultry aromas of blackberries, huckleberry, mocha, lavender, and espresso. The flavors are thick and saturated, coating the mouth with dark cherry, toffee, cedar and a delicate leathery spice. A very generous mid-palate with loads of texture yet it manages to stay fresh and elegant, with juicy acidity, very fine, silky and sleek tannins, and a brilliant finish that certainly doesn’t lack for length. Impressive now, but if drinking before 2015, please decant.

2014 K Vintners The Boy Grenache

Transparent and pure are the first words that come to mind when tasting this wine. Then onto spice, tobacco, black leather, and white pepper. A full palate that comes together to an elegant and ethereal finish.

2013 Bookwalter Foreshadow Merlot

Deep ruby red-black color, clear. Ripe rich fruit with showy inviting oak aromas. Ripe pure fruit flavors refreshingly clean. Longlasting fresh fruit and oak are framed by smooth tannins. Built for a wide menu, this wine drinks invitingly well now.

2012 Obelisco Estate Grown Malbec

Aged in equal parts French and American oak (43% new), this initially puts barrel tones in the lead. Notes of toasty spices, cocoa, toffee and coffee come out in front of blue and black fruit. The flavors are sweet but reserved in style, trailing toward the finish. There's a lot to enjoy but the oak seems a little overweighted for the fruit that's in the bottle.

2013 Cambria Pinot Noir

Concentrated raspberry fruit meets with earthy rhubarb, cranberry, beet, orange rind and thyme herbs on the nose of this new project from the Jackson family. Tighter pomegranate and raspberry fruit show on the palate, alongside graphite and woody herbs. It's a reliably down-the-middle and fresh wine.

2012 Eberle Zinfandel

Supple and jammy, with floral black raspberry aromas and savory flavors of cherry pie, cinnamon and licorice that linger on the spiced vanilla tannins.

2017 Boone’s Farm Strawberry Hill

With hints of lip gloss and sharpies, this wine is everything that it is supposed to be and is as easy going down as it is coming back up.

2014 Bunnell Red Heaven Hills Syrah

Chocolate covered cherry, cedar, and dirty cranberry nose. Medium, high acidity, and complex body. Earthy black fruit front. Big vanilla middle with cherries, cigar tobacco, and currants. The finish is leather, smokey cigar, black cherry, and chocolate.

2009 Chateau Margaux Balthazar

A brilliant offering from the Mentzelopoulos family, once again their gifted manager, Paul Pontallier, has produced an uncommonly concentrated, powerful 2009 Chateau Margaux made from 87% Cabernet Sauvignon and the rest primarily Merlot with small amounts of Cabernet Franc and Petit Verdot. As with most Medocs, the alcohol here is actually lower (a modest 13.3%) than most of its siblings-. Abundant blueberry, cassis and acacia flower as well as hints of charcoal and forest floor aromas that are almost Burgundian in their complexity are followed by a wine displaying sweet, well-integrated tannins as well as a certain ethereal lightness despite the wine-s overall size. Rich, round, generous and unusually approachable for such a young Margaux, this 2009 should drink well for 30-35+ years.

2015 Mark Ryan The Dissident Blend (Cab, Merlot, Cab Franc)

The nose offers notes of violets, black currant, and cedar. A mix of tart red and black fruits. The palate, red cherry, blackberry, and red plum. On the mid palate, cocoa and graphite linger into the finish. The tannins are elegantly balanced with the acidity.

Originally Posted by 1P (Post 29566044)

See, this is exactly the kind of thing that puts off people who don't know about wine, First of all, it's pretentious and full of jargon. Secondly, everyone tastes differently. One of the most annoying things is to visit a winery and being told what you're going to taste in a particular wine. No, as a matter of fact I'm not.

People try to find all kinds of similes for the flavours they taste, instead of tasting the actual grapes and the differences between them. Yes, some wines do have certain prominent flavours that may remind you of a fruit or something else, but a lot of the flowery flummery that accompanies it is just that. I've been a wine connoisseur for 54 years now, and I'd love a moratorium on the kind of language evidenced here. It's unnecessary, self-indulgent, and actually often misleading.

Sorry!

Originally Posted by 1P (Post 29566044)

See, this is exactly the kind of thing that puts off people who don't know about wine, First of all, it's pretentious and full of jargon. Secondly, everyone tastes differently. One of the most annoying things is to visit a winery and being told what you're going to taste in a particular wine. No, as a matter of fact I'm not.

People try to find all kinds of similes for the flavours they taste, instead of tasting the actual grapes and the differences between them. Yes, some wines do have certain prominent flavours that may remind you of a fruit or something else, but a lot of the flowery flummery that accompanies it is just that. I've been a wine connoisseur for 54 years now, and I'd love a moratorium on the kind of language evidenced here. It's unnecessary, self-indulgent, and actually often misleading.

Sorry!

Originally Posted by andyh64000 (Post 29567000)

It was a party game and I pulled the notes directly from the winemakers...not sure what else I could have done :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by kipper (Post 29567357)

I think that is part of 1P's complaint. The winemakers and wineries say, "This is what you should taste," when what 1P tastes may not be what you taste, and I may taste something different than both of you.

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Originally Posted by andyh64000 (Post 29568776)

It was a "guess the wine" contest and the three wines were on the list which was given out as a guideline (I stole the idea from a local winery). I suppose I could have just listed the wines with out any tasting notes but most of the guests were not wine connoisseurs and appreciated a little more detail.

Originally Posted by FLYMSY (Post 29569019)

Originally Posted by kipper (Post 29570582)

Except, to some, they won't taste any of that, or won't know what certain things should taste like, and it can be intimidating.

:D I think brown leather tastes more like chocolate and black leather tastes more like black licorice. :D

Originally Posted by mjm (Post 29570728)

Posted this above, but curious about people's thoughts. I wonder how you might feel about the WSET Systematic Approach to Tasting?

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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K (Post 29616709)

As many posters here know, I am ITB so let me say first off that I have a "horse in this race".

One of the biggest reasons that the Wine Industry is having trouble keeping market share, losing most of its headcount to Beer, is that many in our industry have made wine too darned complicated. Most wine education is way too formal, full of technical and otherwise jargon that alienate newbies. Also, even if you attend a wine tasting (and not a wine class or course), many times is turns out to be an alienating experience because the "expert" chooses to dictate and "preach from the pulpit". I think very little of wine descriptors for newbie use, I have nothing against them (in principle) but these descriptors are NOT for everybody and their ABUSE is hurting the wine industry... it scares many people into thinking they dont know anything about wine and just push them across the street to some micro-brewery.

In recent years, Wine has gotten to become a "big deal" and people are scared to make mistakes, or to appear ill-prepared to order wines at a Restaurant or serve it at dinner at home with guests. People in Wine need to take this into account, and we must all do our part in making folks welcome and take them step by step.

For someone new to wine that wants to learn, I suggest seeking out a small and ideally owner operated Wine Shop close to your area. Spend some time, tell your Wine Merchant that you are new and want to learn, be frank and open about what you like to drink now and what you have tasted... dont me scared to say "I think Cabernet is too strong", or "I only like Sweet Wines". Depending on your level of interest, try to take notes, dont use any technical words, just take notes that you understand any go back often to read them. Write things as you feel/smell/taste them... keep it as simple as you can, find your own system. Try to buy different wines in different styles and from different regions, go back to your merchant with your notes and discuss what you liked more, and also what you liked less. There is always time to sign up for a wine class, but I think that money is better spent on bottles of wine than on formal wine education.... what you taste and what you write in your notebook, plus the feedback you give (and get) from your Wine Merchant is the best wine education you will ever get.

Give the above a try... and a few months later, the next steps will come naturally.... Wine Knowledge is a journey. Pace yourself and go at your own stride... it is a wonderful journey.

In closing, I will bring out a frequent flyer analogy. Wine is like airline travel.... once you experience high-end wine, similar to when you are seated on the correct side of the curtain, it is very hard to enjoy Economy Class... the same way it becomes difficult to enjoy cheap Wine..... :cool:

Originally Posted by Gaucho100K (Post 29616709)

One of the biggest reasons that the Wine Industry is having trouble keeping market share, losing most of its headcount to Beer, is that many in our industry have made wine too darned complicated. Most wine education is way too formal, full of technical and otherwise jargon that alienate newbies. Also, even if you attend a wine tasting (and not a wine class or course), many times is turns out to be an alienating experience because the "expert" chooses to dictate and "preach from the pulpit". I think very little of wine descriptors for newbie use, I have nothing against them (in principle) but these descriptors are NOT for everybody and their ABUSE is hurting the wine industry... it scares many people into thinking they dont know anything about wine and just push them across the street to some micro-brewery.

Originally Posted by kipper (Post 29567357)

I think that is part of 1P's complaint. The winemakers and wineries say, "This is what you should taste," when what 1P tastes may not be what you taste, and I may taste something different than both of you.

Originally Posted by FLYMSY (Post 29569019)

Originally Posted by mjm (Post 29572459)

Originally Posted by kipper (Post 29617564)

I think he is scared to make a mistake, hence asking. Unfortunately, in PA, owner operated wine shops are challenging to find, unless they only have one winery.

Originally Posted by darthbimmer (Post 29630434)

One of the challenges is knowing who the audience is. Many tastings IME are geared toward more sophisticated wine drinkers. Jargon which that audience understands is confusing and a turn-off to novices. Similarly, fine differences between wines may be interesting to advanced customers but beyond the understanding of novices. And certain kinds of wine, like cabernet sauvignon, take a bit more of a developed palate to appreciate. When I'm selecting wines for a party I make very different choices depending on whether I'm entertaining novice or experienced drinkers. Both types of crowds generally like what I pick for them.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 29688534)

Join a "wine club" (or several) that organizes wine tastings and/or wine dinners; these are often offered at reasonable prices by wine stores. Look also for restaurant (or private club) tastings, classes and wine dinner series offerings. Try to find a compatible group of people who are at approximately your level of knowledge. You don't want to keep retaking the "wine 101" class if you're beyond that level, nor do you want to become overwhelmed too soon by self-proclaimed experts.

Originally Posted by JayhawkCO (Post 29689897)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Wine Folly, both the book and the blog. Definitely brings wine down to "normal people level". I'm in the restaurant business and am in charge of our wine list, and often still refer to notes found in the book.

Chris

Originally Posted by mjm (Post 29691703)

Some very interesting and insightful comments, thank you iceblueshoes for adding those thoughts.

I find the general discussion here seems to be focused on two things, a desire to describe a whole wine (i.e. its aroma, flavors, acidity, fruit intensity, finish and more all wrapped into one evaluation of good vs. bad, like vs. dislike).

The thing I like about the advanced levels of WSET’s study of wine and then into the MW pursuit as well is a consideration of the component parts, the processes, the adherence or divergence from what nature gave, the zillions of opinions on combinations of these factors, etc. It takes wine to a level that puts it on par with music, art, or cooking. For me that combination of wine as a stand-alone item, then in combination with food, and finally as a product of place is what does it for me. The WSET tasting method allows wines to be compared across regions and times. This is important if we are to understand wines in context. I believe this also enables us to make better pairing decisions and cellar creation decisions. People that see the description of wine as tasting of crushed strawberries, or as having a hint of nail varnish as being described with jargon are just being absurd in the criticism of the language used to describe wine. I agree going further into pH levels and effects of different soils and rootstocks on the acidity of wine is a bit much, but surely everyday words should be able to applied without people getting skittish. Imagine not being able to describe the yeasty characteristics of champagne without using a freshly baked piece of bread product as simile. I did not need to study at all to see how that brought to mind a picture or reference point that allowed me to understand a component flavor of many champagnes.

There really is some very good advice here in this thread by people who have discovered a passion for wine. Each consumer will be different in what appeals to them., I encourage above all to simply try and try again. When these memories become the basis for purchase decisions, then maybe take it a step further. The one secret I can share is that the more you know, when you really have a good database in your head, and end up somewhere that a bottle of something from a grape you have not tried is offered, you will likely jump at that chance, not because you know, but because you do not know yet. :)

Originally Posted by iceblueshoes (Post 29691903)

You miss out on a lot if all you do is pick Pinot Grigio ...

Originally Posted by MaxBuck (Post 29695633)

My own experience suggests you miss out on pretty much everything if you drink pinot grigio. It's like wine for people who don't like wine.

Originally Posted by iceblueshoes (Post 29695748)

LOL and I agree.

One of my instructors would say "it's a neutral white wine that doesn't taste like wine or really taste like much of anything. Why not just order a cocktail or a beer?"

With that being said, PG was a PAIN when doing blinds and trying to get ready for my exams since their is almost nothing to go off of. There are some decent PG out there, but yes, they are by far and few in the minority and not the "house wine" at a North American restaurant.

Originally Posted by mjm (Post 29697929)

The Alsace versions are far more enjoyable than the Oregonian stuff. The Italian ones always please me in the early part of a meal or in the late afternoon sunshine. I think Japan takes the cake on insipid flavor profile-less wine with Koshu. I won't even let it be served at my table. Blech! And the faux patriotism based exclamations of joy from locals when they drink it, yowza.

Originally Posted by MaxBuck (Post 29695633)

My own experience suggests you miss out on pretty much everything if you drink pinot grigio. It's like wine for people who don't like wine.

Originally Posted by mjm (Post 29697929)

I think Japan takes the cake on insipid flavor profile-less wine with Koshu. I won't even let it be served at my table. Blech! And the faux patriotism based exclamations of joy from locals when they drink it, yowza.

Originally Posted by iceblueshoes (Post 29691903)

You're welcome!
I would just add to keep an open mind. You miss out on a lot if all you do is pick Pinot Grigio or try to be a Bay Street (Wall Street for you Americans) banker that only drinks high end Napa Cab because a publication tell you it's 90000 billion points. Of course, I'd rather drink Napa Cab out of those 2. ;)

There is so much misinformation out there it makes you shake your head.

Here's an easy example: tannins. "I'm allergic to tannin."
I hear this often when people are giving wine samples, to which my response is "can you eat grapes?" If yes "do you eat the skin?". If yes, then you're not allergic tannin.
Tannin is a sensation, not a chemical compound.

Another one is "allergic to sulphites" or "I get bad headaches when I drink red wine so it means I'm allergic to sulphites"
Easy solution. Drink better wines with no added sugars (often sweetened on lower end wines to cover up faults), or "try switching to organic wines".
Drink more water so you don't get too dehydrated.
Or lastly,"can you eat raising, prunes, etc. and feel fine." If yes, then you're not allergic to sulphites as dried out fruits have more sulphites which naturally occur in the trying process than a wine.
If no, get an allergy test. A small portion of the population can't drink, but like "gluten free" stop trying to be trendy.

Originally Posted by Eastbay1K (Post 29701571)

I think you need to get real about what really might be giving people the headaches, or otherwise poisoning them. Of course, the industry doesn't like to talk about it. I started a "what's in your wine" thread a while back. And here's what is permitted in the USA.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-20...-sec24-246.xml
And sure, it's all filtered out. Right.
I don't put it past even some fairly spendy places to manipulate their wines more than yeast and fining.

I can drink a glass of red and my nose starts getting stuffy before I'm done. Or I can drink a couple of bottles over the course of an evening and feel fine ... really really fine :) - and no congestion. Just ask MJM ;)

Originally Posted by iceblueshoes (Post 29701650)

Out of curiosity though, it it only a certain red? Certain grape varietal? Certain region? Certain country?

Originally Posted by iceblueshoes (Post 29701650)

Some winemakers add more than others, but I'm only referring to sulphites and tannin specifically.
Tannin is a texture (not an ingredient or chemical) so how can you be allergic to that? it would be like saying you're allergic softness or roughness..