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A new tipping concept: tipping on amount of time waiter spends on you

A new tipping concept: tipping on amount of time waiter spends on you

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Old Mar 4, 16, 12:15 pm
  #61  
 
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tip on tax?

Perhaps I missed other remarks, but I saw only one comment that mentioned the amount on which one might tip a percentage. In particular, if one believes in tipping a percentage, should it be on the menu price or the total check? I have some trouble seeing why the tip should go up because the local jurisdiction has imposed a restaurant tax, but I could be missing something.

On a slightly related theme, should one tip on a free meal? One example would be an Embassy Suites, where everyone gets a free breakfast. Tip the busboy? Another case would be a Hyatt Regency, where a diamond HGP member gets a complimentary breakfast. Tip?

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old Mar 4, 16, 1:17 pm
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Originally Posted by serpens View Post
Perhaps I missed other remarks, but I saw only one comment that mentioned the amount on which one might tip a percentage. In particular, if one believes in tipping a percentage, should it be on the menu price or the total check? I have some trouble seeing why the tip should go up because the local jurisdiction has imposed a restaurant tax, but I could be missing something.

On a slightly related theme, should one tip on a free meal? One example would be an Embassy Suites, where everyone gets a free breakfast. Tip the busboy? Another case would be a Hyatt Regency, where a diamond HGP member gets a complimentary breakfast. Tip?

Thanks for your thoughts.
The most common practice in the US is to calculate a tip percentage based on the undiscounted cost, not including any taxes. This applies to free meals, as well - tip is calculated based on the undiscounted cost. This is how I and virtually everyone I know calculate tips.

I personally modify this technique slightly for convenience: I round my tips up to the nearest even dollar when calculating a percentage, and for any bills under $15, I tip a flat rate of $3. To me, it seems silly to calculate a percentage of a $7.58 or $9.32 or $14.75 total, so I just put down $3 and call it square. Since this equals our to be at least 20% on those small tabs, everyone is happy - I don't have to use my calculator, the server gets a fair percentage, and nobody has to deal with coins. At self-service buffets, I always tip a flat rate of $2. Since about 90% of my restaurant eating is alone, and mostly with costs under $15, this makes my tipping practice simple and automatic (assuming adequate service).

Some people use different systems, such as calculating based on the cost after discounts are applied, or calculating based on the total cost including taxes. But the general practice is, don't increase tip due to tax, and don't decrease tip based on coupons, discounts, or complimentary items. I have even seen some people tip a flat, set amount, regardless of the size of the bill (which inevitably turns out far smaller than what a percentage-based tip would be).
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Old Mar 4, 16, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo View Post
Well, in the real world as opposed to planet USA, waiters are paid properly and any tip (if they even receive it) is extra. Which is why 10 - 12% is pretty well maximum.
Exactly.
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Old Mar 4, 16, 1:41 pm
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Today in Portugal I saw a certain person from a certain heavy tipping country trying to tip a public bus driver!
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Old Mar 4, 16, 1:52 pm
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Anyone on this thread ever mention to your waiter exactly what criteria you're looking for to issue your tip %?

Pros:
+ everyone is on the same page
+ encourage quality service

Cons:
- unusual practice
- requires clarity of thought & communication

e.g.:
10% food cold or not as ordered, drinks left emptied
15% hot food, drinks refilled/offered again, no interruptions
25% (above) + frank personal recommendation + asked how quickly would like bill after last course served

Last edited by TheTakeOffRush; Mar 4, 16 at 1:56 pm Reason: example added
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Old Mar 5, 16, 6:49 am
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Originally Posted by TheTakeOffRush View Post
Anyone on this thread ever mention to your waiter exactly what criteria you're looking for to issue your tip %?

Pros:
+ everyone is on the same page
+ encourage quality service

Cons:
- unusual practice
- requires clarity of thought & communication

e.g.:
10% food cold or not as ordered, drinks left emptied
15% hot food, drinks refilled/offered again, no interruptions
25% (above) + frank personal recommendation + asked how quickly would like bill after last course served
Nice thought, but it doesn't work well.

I used to leave cards at restaurant tables when I left. They had rules printed on them - on the front were four simple rules for getting a good tip, and on the back were four simple rules for being a good patron. To me, these rules simply clarified my position and got everyone on the same page.

But the reaction from most people who saw the cards was negative. "HOW RUDE!" "Well, that's pretty condescending!" and "You're a jerk!" were the most common responses I got. Of course, most people never noticed the back side of the cards, with the rules for patrons - they only thought I was giving a bunch of crap to servers.

Originally Posted by WillCAD
WillCAD's Four Simple Rules for Serving Me and Getting A Good Tip:

1. Don't let me see the bottom of my glass!
Bringing new sodas is the easiest part of the job, and I don't go through a glass of soda that quickly. If my glass goes empty and stays that way for more than a few minutes, the tip begins to erode quickly.

2. LOOK AT ME!
Every five minutes or so, as you pass by my table, just look over at me so I can get your attention if I need something. I don't expect you to ask me "Everything okay can I get you anything how's your food are you having a good time didja see Survivor the other night?" every five minutes, but a simple glance in my direction periodically would enable me to raise my soda glass to motion for a refill, or make a signing motion to ask for the check, or wave you over if I have a question.

3. Be polite and just a little cheerful.
You don't have to kiss my butt or pretend to be my best friend, and you don't have to act like you won the lottery to have me as your customer - just don't act like your dog died when you take my order. And impatient, surly, and argumentative is no way to go though life, son. Well, it is for me, but not when I'm dealing with a client/customer/general public.

4. Make it right.
If you make a minor mistake, or the kitchen screws up my food, I don't expect you to act like you just shot Old Yeller. Forget the sackcloth and ashes routine, just say, "I'm sorry, I'll take care of that" and take care of that. Actions speak way louder than words. Ignoring it or getting grumpy when I point out something wrong is the fastest way to get a lousy tip from me - or none at all.

And most importantly, have a nice day!

Originally Posted by WillCAD
WillCAD's Four Simple Rules for Being a Good Restaurant Patron:

1. Keep it clean!
Somebody has to clean up any mess you make after you leave, and they don't get paid enough to deal with your garbage. So unless your server is Mike Rowe, have a little consideration, ya slob, and don't leave piles of chicken bones or puddles of soup, soda, or pancake syrup all over the table.

2. Keep it simple!
Servers aren't telepathic - they don't know what you WANT, they only know what you SAY. So do everybody a favor and actually read your menu and decide what you want to order before the server asks you - and then convey your order in short, simple, coherent sentences. They ain't Creskin; if they give you the wrong thing because you babbled your order in incomprehensible gibberish, it's YOUR fault, not theirs.

3. Treat them with respect!
The lowest, most despicable person on Earth is the person who thinks that a server, bartender, bellhop, painter, ditch-digger, toilet scrubber, or other person in a manual-labor job is somehow "beneath" notice and not worthy of respect. I SPIT on all those who would treat a service person like a second-class citizen! Ptooey!

4. Reward them according to their merits.
Hey, if that server did their job as they were supposed to do it, then give them a proper tip! They bust their butts to give you a nice, enjoyable, pleasant meal, and they deserve commensurate compensation for their work. If they did an OUTSTANDING job, don't just leave a few bucks on the table, TELL them that they did an outstanding job. After all, everybody can use a compliment now and then, right? And if they did a REALLY OUTSTANDING job, tell the manager - a few compliments can help out on the server's yearly reviews and salary evaluations! Wouldn't you like to get a nice raise if you did a great job?

4A. If it ain't their fault, don't blame them!
If the kitchen is a shambles, or it took a long time to get seated, or the table next to you was loud and obnoxious all night, don't use that flimsy excuse to leave a crappy tip - none of that is the server's fault. Hold them responsible only for their own actions, just as you should be held responsible only for your own.

And most importantly, have a nice day!
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Old Mar 5, 16, 1:49 pm
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Originally Posted by WillCAD View Post
The most common practice in the US is to calculate a tip percentage based on the undiscounted cost, not including any taxes. This applies to free meals, as well - tip is calculated based on the undiscounted cost. This is how I and virtually everyone I know calculate tips.
Thanks for the reply, especially since you approved of my methodology. But at a recent visit to Ruby Tuesday, the check showed tip amounts (for 15%, 18%, and 20%) based on the amount including tax. It surprised me.

The question about the diamond breakfast amenity at a Hyatt Regency was a bit of a trick question, because the gratuity is (supposed to be) included in the amenity. In that case, would you reduce the percentage (perhaps to zero), take a percentage of a discounted amount, or leave what the program would imply is an exorbitant tip?
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Old Mar 5, 16, 7:07 pm
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Originally Posted by Brahmin View Post
This is not a job that requires education or technical skill. $ 10 equates to about $ 20,000 per year.

For this task, no one should be making 50K, 80K or 100K.

If the server does not want to improve his education and other skills, why should we be pampering him with huge tips.

The servers have also become very greedy and feel that they are entitled.
I work in a restaurant, the work is paying for me to get my J.D. Most of my coworkers are undergraduates, the work is paying for them to get their college degrees. None of us are greedy and entitled, we're simply people trying to improve our education and other skills.

Please don't dine in our restaurant.
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Old Mar 5, 16, 7:40 pm
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
I work in a restaurant, the work is paying for me to get my J.D. Most of my coworkers are undergraduates, the work is paying for them to get their college degrees. None of us are greedy and entitled, we're simply people trying to improve our education and other skills.

Please don't dine in our restaurant.
Which restaurant is that? And by not entitled, you and your colleagues feel no ill will if--not having earned an extra tip--you were to get none? Entitled is such a dirty word, but I do think most US wait staff feel they ought to receive a tip--apart from offering service above and beyond the norm. I just shrug and chalk it up to "when in Rome..."

Originally Posted by WillCAD View Post
Nice thought, but it doesn't work well.

I used to leave cards at restaurant tables...these rules simply clarified my position and got everyone on the same page.

But the reaction from most people who saw the cards was negative. "HOW RUDE!" "Well, that's pretty condescending!" and "You're a jerk!"
Yep. Have a feeling this would happen. Some jobs are not ideal for the customer educating the service provider on what they expect (e.g. imagine trying to coach a doctor or a mechanic on your expectations).
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Old Mar 5, 16, 7:44 pm
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Originally Posted by TheTakeOffRush View Post
Which restaurant is that? And by not entitled, you and your colleagues feel no ill will if--not having earned an extra tip--you were to get none? Entitled is such a dirty word, but I do think most US wait staff feel they ought to receive a tip--apart from offering service above and beyond the norm. I just shrug and chalk it up to "when in Rome..."
It's a generic chain restaurant. I work hard as do most of my colleagues, at least the ones who are paying their way through college do. I haven't seen situations where they haven't worked hard, frankly. In North Carolina tip outs are legal and server minimum wage is $2.13, we're not exactly going to slack off and hope someone will pay us jut for our smiles.
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Old Mar 5, 16, 7:52 pm
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
It's a generic chain restaurant. I work hard as do most of my colleagues, at least the ones who are paying their way through college do. I haven't seen situations where they haven't worked hard, frankly. In North Carolina tip outs are legal and server minimum wage is $2.13, we're not exactly going to slack off and hope someone will pay us jut for our smiles.
Forgive me if you've laid it out above (it's a long thread by now), but wouldn't you rather receive actual, non-server minimum (or higher) wage at this job? Did you happen to shop around for jobs in this field that would pay better at baseline (apart from tips)? Seems like you and your colleagues get shafted by the NC law.
Good luck, too, on your J.D.
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Old Mar 5, 16, 8:48 pm
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Originally Posted by TheTakeOffRush View Post
Forgive me if you've laid it out above (it's a long thread by now), but wouldn't you rather receive actual, non-server minimum (or higher) wage at this job? Did you happen to shop around for jobs in this field that would pay better at baseline (apart from tips)? Seems like you and your colleagues get shafted by the NC law.
Good luck, too, on your J.D.
I'm actually the delivery driver, not a server. I've worked several delivery jobs in law school, both tip based and flat fee, and I find tip based allows for more consistent earnings.

For my colleagues though, I know they would love a living wage, some of them work here ten hours, busting their ..., and walk home with $20.
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Old Mar 6, 16, 5:20 pm
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Originally Posted by WillCAD View Post
Nice thought, but it doesn't work well.

I used to leave cards at restaurant tables when I left. They had rules printed on them - on the front were four simple rules for getting a good tip, and on the back were four simple rules for being a good patron. To me, these rules simply clarified my position and got everyone on the same page.

But the reaction from most people who saw the cards was negative. "HOW RUDE!" "Well, that's pretty condescending!" and "You're a jerk!" were the most common responses I got. Of course, most people never noticed the back side of the cards, with the rules for patrons - they only thought I was giving a bunch of crap to servers.
I'm not surprised. [Redacted]

Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post
I work in a restaurant, the work is paying for me to get my J.D. Most of my coworkers are undergraduates, the work is paying for them to get their college degrees. None of us are greedy and entitled, we're simply people trying to improve our education and other skills.

Please don't dine in our restaurant.
So if I were a server with a goal of amassing $10 million in the bank, would I be justified in being a massive tip whore?

What you don't understand is that the wage you receive is commensurate with the type of work you do. What you plan to do with the earnings or what your future endeavors are is completely irrelevant.

Last edited by cblaisd; Mar 6, 16 at 6:14 pm Reason: merged poster's two consecutive posts; removed unecessarily personalized remarks.
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Old Mar 7, 16, 6:54 am
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Originally Posted by Kevin AA View Post
What you don't understand is that the wage you receive is commensurate with the type of work you do. What you plan to do with the earnings or what your future endeavors are is completely irrelevant.
That's absurd. How is someone supposed to get anywhere if they can't make the money to get there? College and graduate school are expensive. Are people supposed to take out loans and spend years paying them off? Or should they try and be self sufficient while they're studying? One of the best things about restaurants is they are very flexible about the hours their employees can work. And like I keep saying, my coworkers work really hard because our very lives depend on it. I'm going to be a lawyer, they're going to be social workers, bankers, musicians and more but we all have to get there.

Again, if you think we're somehow beneath you because we're working to get ahead, or if you have a problem with how we're paid, please do us a favor and stay home.
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Old Mar 7, 16, 8:07 am
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Originally Posted by CMK10 View Post

Again, if you think we're somehow beneath you because we're working to get ahead, or if you have a problem with how we're paid, please do us a favor and stay home.
This is the second time you've advised the poster to stay away from your restaurant.
As you're the delivery driver it's not your restaurant and if you'd actually ever owned a restaurant you'd understand that the paying customer is more important to the owner and the job security of their staff than their future careers.
But it is indicative of the entitlement culture popular amongst wait staff.
Tips are a voluntary payment by diners and should reflect the quality of service they receive in a restaurant in any country.
I have no idea what wait staff earn and frankly I don't really care.But if they provide good service I'll give them a good tip.If they don't they get nothing.
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