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A new tipping concept: tipping on amount of time waiter spends on you

A new tipping concept: tipping on amount of time waiter spends on you

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Old Feb 26, 16, 6:25 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by Brahmin View Post
It does not.
The tipping system is wrong and the Restaurant Association need to make sure that the staff is paid by the restaurant owner.

Why don't the wait staff go on strike as other professions do to demand a proper wage? The reason is that if they go on strike they can be easily replaced as anybody can bring food to a table.
It has been clearly articulated why tipping is not unreasonable in most US markets. Why are you too cheap to go along with this?
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Old Feb 26, 16, 6:55 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by callum9999 View Post
As evidenced by others, plenty of people love the pageantry of being waited on by a subordinate (which will no doubt be denied, but I see no other way of describing the fake relationship between someone who is effectively asking for charity and the diner who is obliged by social contract to provide it).

If it's not something you like yourself, a simple "thank you but I'd like to be left alone" would do. You can hardly blame them - it's how they get a significant proportion of their wage.
I don't see why I should have to tell I waiter I wish to be left alone.If they were any good at their job they would know that anyway.
It isn't brain surgery but the fact that so may wait staff have difficulty performing even this simplest of tasks correctly shows how tipping people for bad service is plain stupid.
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Old Feb 26, 16, 2:31 pm
  #48  
 
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Years ago I waited tables. I hated it because my income was highly variable. I decided that I would prefer getting exactly $4.75/hr (whatever minimum wage was back then) at McDonald's instead of my pay being a random number. McD's offered more hours so I ended up making about the same amount of money without having to dance for nickels.

Variable income is fine if it's a lot of money -- actors, musicians, authors, consultants, etc. But when your variable income is not that much more than minimum wage, it makes no sense. What makes even less sense is making the server share tips with other employees.

Let's take this to its logical conclusion: advertise "FREE FOOD!!!" and then tell the customers that they need to tip an appropriate amount for the server, the other employees, the wholesale cost of food, the building mortgage/rent, the electricity, etc. A percentage method clearly won't work, so produce a receipt with zeroes on it for the order, and at the bottom a suggested tip range which is a calculation based on what you ordered. What used to be a $200 dinner with an expected tip of 15% is now totally free with an expected tip of $230. The servers have to tip out the busboy and ConEd.
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Old Feb 26, 16, 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Philatravelgirl View Post
Can we put a stop to this whole "tipping issue" on FlyerTalk. I seem to see a new "tipping is horrible" post every few days by those who have never had to wait on the public to earn a living? I've waitressed for over ten years while in college and to supplement my first job earnings at an investment firm so I could travel. I learned so much more about the public (good, bad and truly ugly) working in bars & restaurants that it definitely helped me dealing with C-level staff and folks around the world. You are making blanket assumptions that they don't want to improve education or technical skills? I really can't believe I just read that sweeping generalization.

The US definitely has a problem with tipping (it's gotten worse IMO) - I earned $2.01 an hour and had to declare to the IRS a % of sales whether or not the table covered the % or not. I had to tip out to others from my tips - tip the bartender and about five others (if I was lucky others) so you assume folks get to keep those tips - you are served by a village not one person in a restaurant. The host(ess) who seats you, the bartender makes your drink, the sommelier, the food runner, the guy who refills the water glass, the person who clears the table and a few others. I paid taxes on the whole pile of tips, not the net after paying out to the others. So for your $200 dinner, if you did tip 10%, the server doesn't keep that $20 as they need to tip out to everyone.
If you wish to travel, you should earn the money yourself, not expect the dining public to pay for it.
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Old Feb 26, 16, 4:05 pm
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by charlinator View Post
Saying derogatory things about waiters speaks volumes about the poster, not the waiters.
You're assuming ill of all customers. In my experience it's quite likely a restaurant patron who speaks poorly of the waiter has had a poor waiter.

One of those 7 states is California, which all by itself is 1/8 of the country by population. The 7 states together (Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Oregon, Nevada, and Washington) are nearly 1/5 the country's population. If you also add in New York, which has a minimum cash wage of $7.50 per the article cited-- above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 but less than the state minimum of $9 for non-tipped employees-- the proportion increases to 1/4.
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Old Feb 26, 16, 8:03 pm
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Originally Posted by darthbimmer View Post
You're assuming ill of all customers. In my experience it's quite likely a restaurant patron who speaks poorly of the waiter has had a poor waiter.



One of those 7 states is California, which all by itself is 1/8 of the country by population. The 7 states together (Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Oregon, Nevada, and Washington) are nearly 1/5 the country's population. If you also add in New York, which has a minimum cash wage of $7.50 per the article cited-- above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 but less than the state minimum of $9 for non-tipped employees-- the proportion increases to 1/4.
Speaking poorly of a specific waiter who has performed poorly is merely relating facts.

Speaking poorly of the entire profession, denigrating their skills, their life choices, or their value as human beings, speaks volumes about the the speaker - it says he's an arrogant, elitist snob who looks down his nose at what he deems "little people". And people like that are the ones who really are worth less as human beings than those who work service professions, doing the difficult, dirty, tedious, or dangerous jobs that keep our society operating.

"Takes no skill", "Provides no value", etc. is completely wrong. Anyone who thinks this way knows nothing about the service industry or the people who work in it.
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Old Feb 26, 16, 8:32 pm
  #52  
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The service industry has its earnings skills dictated by its skills and demands. The more skilled you are the more you make.
There are a lot of professions in the service industry . Lawyers, brokers, servers, prostitutes, etc.
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Old Feb 27, 16, 7:57 am
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Originally Posted by WillCAD View Post
Speaking poorly of the entire profession, denigrating their skills, their life choices, or their value as human beings, speaks volumes about the the speaker - it says he's an arrogant, elitist snob who looks down his nose at what he deems "little people". And people like that are the ones who really are worth less as human beings than those who work service professions, doing the difficult, dirty, tedious, or dangerous jobs that keep our society operating.

"Takes no skill", "Provides no value", etc. is completely wrong. Anyone who thinks this way knows nothing about the service industry or the people who work in it.
As I was responding to someone else in the text you quoted, I can't be certain your explanation is what that other person meant. I do agree with you, however. People who dismiss the entire profession as unskilled and valueless are clods.
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Old Feb 27, 16, 8:12 am
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Originally Posted by Brahmin View Post
The service industry has its earnings skills dictated by its skills and demands. The more skilled you are the more you make.
There are a lot of professions in the service industry . Lawyers, brokers, servers, prostitutes, etc.
The service industry has its earnings dictated by the free market, not a central planner who magically decides how much each person is worth based on their education and supposed "skill". Sure, there's some correlation, but it's certainly not dictated by anything, and not should it be. If a restaurant could get away with suggesting a 5% tip, they would lower prices for consumers and more clients for the restaurant.

If you're not willing to pay market price for service, maybe you should try fast food instead?
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Old Feb 27, 16, 12:24 pm
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Originally Posted by Clint Bint View Post
I don't see why I should have to tell I waiter I wish to be left alone.If they were any good at their job they would know that anyway.
It isn't brain surgery but the fact that so may wait staff have difficulty performing even this simplest of tasks correctly shows how tipping people for bad service is plain stupid.
Because you're entering an environment in which the standard procedure is for them to wait attentively on you. If your preference is for them to change the way they work it's on you to tell them that. You're a human being, they're a human being - a bit of common decency goes a long way.

Well I think tipping people at all is plain stupid, but that's beside the point.
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Old Feb 27, 16, 4:52 pm
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Originally Posted by darthbimmer View Post
As I was responding to someone else in the text you quoted, I can't be certain your explanation is what that other person meant. I do agree with you, however. People who dismiss the entire profession as unskilled and valueless are clods.
I certainly don't think the profession is "unskilled and valueless". Any job requires some amount of skill, and any job has value. However, being a server requires no particular educational qualifications, and people can be trained for it in a matter of days. The skill needed is on par with jobs like a cashier. Therefore, I believe that in states without tip credits, servers are significantly overpaid for the work they do.

Originally Posted by JamilD View Post
The service industry has its earnings dictated by the free market, not a central planner who magically decides how much each person is worth based on their education and supposed "skill". Sure, there's some correlation, but it's certainly not dictated by anything, and not should it be. If a restaurant could get away with suggesting a 5% tip, they would lower prices for consumers and more clients for the restaurant.
The free market only works where there is transparency and predictability. If a service is provided and THEN the customer decides how much to pay for it, that is not a free market. Very few markets work that way, and those that do, very poorly.
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Old Feb 28, 16, 6:31 pm
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I know, I know, everyone's mind is pretty much made up. But I'll rant anyway:
  • Belittling restaurant staff is rude and uncalled for. Please don't do it. You don't know folks' education, life's circumstances, etc. And unless you've worked in a restaurant, you honestly don't know the challenges associated with the work and the knowledge initially necessary and subsequently gleaned.
  • We all have different preferences when dining. Be an adult and communicate your preferences respectfully.
  • No, tipping does not make for "better" service. See the previous bullet point. Also, dine in Japan.
  • Just because you (believe) that you're able to reward and punish great and terrible service via your tips does not make it so in the aggregate. Studies have shown that there's overall extremely little correlation between amount tipped and service received. Sadly, there's very high correlation between tip amounts and looks & ethnicity (e.g., tall, large bosomed women are making MUCH more money while doing the same work as shorter non-white men.)
  • In many states in the U.S., waitstaff are required to be paid a minimum wage. Given this, I'm honestly not quite sure why we tip them, though personally I'm a fan of a higher minimum wage (in general) and greater safety nets.
  • If you eat at a restaurant and do not tip what is customary for reasonable service in that part of the world, you're either being clueless or just a jerk.
  • Yes, that's true even if (like me) you hate tipping and think the very existence of essentially-mandatory tipping is evil. Work to change the system rather than punishing folks today.
  • For instance, if you live near a restaurant that includes a living wage for its staff in lieu of depending upon handouts from customers (e.g., tips), please support that establishment!
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Old Mar 1, 16, 6:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Brahmin View Post
Remember that the server is double and triple dipping as he is serving other tables at the same time.
This is ridiculous. That's like saying you should be paid for one project even though you finished two projects using the same amount of time. Me tipping 40% is a reward to the waitstaff for excellent service, not a "next round on me" offer for other patrons.
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Old Mar 3, 16, 10:38 am
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Clint Bint View Post
I don't see why I should have to tell I waiter I wish to be left alone.If they were any good at their job they would know that anyway.
This. I've seen one report of a restaurant where the greeting staff is trained to do a quick mood evaluation of people when the come in so they can then advise the wait staff in how to best approach them.
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Old Mar 3, 16, 6:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Brahmin View Post
Tip your server by the amount of time he caters to you.

If your server spends an hour with you, pay him an hourly wage. The hourly wage should be $ 10 per hour.

This is not a job that requires education or technical skill. $ 10 equates to about $ 20,000 per year.

For this task, no one should be making 50K, 80K or 100K.

If the server does not want to improve his education and other skills, why should we be pampering him with huge tips.

For a $ 200 dinner where you spend two hours, you should only tip him $ 20. Remember that the server is double and triple dipping as he is serving other tables at the same time. Maybe then $ 10 per hour is also too much.

The restaurant owner should be responsible for their server's income, not the patron. The owners have been reaping profits without paying their due to their staff.

The servers have also become very greedy and feel that they are entitled.
Whenever I see threads like this, there's always some angry undercurrent of emotion that has led to someone developing this emotion. A rational opinion is this. I've been in countries with tipping and without tipping. You get much better service in countries with tipping and you have an immediate way to give feedback.

In terms of whatever you idea is to give tips, the government dings that waiter based on 8% of their gross receipts for their taxes. That's how tipping works in this country. If you don't like it, I suggest moving to non-tipping countries and you can enjoy that drink sitting empty for most of your meal.

Originally Posted by TOMFORD View Post
This is ridiculous. That's like saying you should be paid for one project even though you finished two projects using the same amount of time. Me tipping 40% is a reward to the waitstaff for excellent service, not a "next round on me" offer for other patrons.
I wouldn't try to bring rational thought into this. These threads always involve, at their root, someone who feels angry because someone is getting ahead of them because they are getting tips.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 4, 16 at 3:21 am Reason: merge
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