+1

Rye is extremely tricky. I used to keep two sourdough starters - a rye one and a wheat flour one, but rye ferments on a completely different timescale to wheat. I don't bother with the rye sourdough starter anymore - too needy. Also, I find the process for making breads with rye COMPLETELY different to those with wheat.

I also think the OP gave up too soon.

Also, my kitchen worksurface always suffers from the extreme stickiness of rye... That's why I go for the white-with-a-little-rye approach.

uk1, don't give up. I wouldn't do more than a 12h refresh and 4h prove with sourdough - you just need to plan the timings around when you're going to be available to do the kneading and stretching. It's definitely worth persisting.

Thanks for the responses. Sorry if my post lacked clarity. It is nothing at all to do with giving up.

I seeded the starter with rye but fed it then onwards with wheat. I only made wheat loaves not rye loaves. I actually don't like most purchased sourdough bread, and this is only slightly sourer. I simply wanted the challenge.

I enjoy the pseudo sour I normally make using my hybrid poolish/biga sponge starter. It has almost the character of sourdough but less sour. It is more a traditional baguette/compagne result in the steam approach I use. It isn't a matter of giving up as I achieved what I wanted to do and that is simply making a couple of loaves without using yeast to see if I could as I'd failed before. I never intended it to be a daily thing as I prefer all of the wide range of other breads I make. I mostly make pretty decent authentic baguettes.

Thanks.

:)

Just MHO, but I don't believe a sourdough should be more than very slightly sour (the 'sour' in the name refers to the starter, not to the loaf).

It's also worth experimenting with different recipes for different styles of loaf. All down to preference, really - if you like sourdough bread to have an open texture (rather like ciabatta) you obviously need a looser dough. Thing is, that makes the dough significantly harder to work with, especially if you're doing it manually.

It's also worth researching stretch & fold and boule-forming techniques if that's something you don't do with poolish methods (it's more important with sourdough). The former gives (IME) much better results when you're knocking back than either just tapping or kneading - that little extra texture in the dough. The latter is key if you want a non-tin loaf - you seriously need to get that surface tension to keep the dough in the right shape (even with a proving basket). Gives a better crust, too...

Quite right.

I even find Poiline and Gails a touch to sour or whatever word you'd prefer. I am a sucker for flour experimentation and I must have around 20 different flours open at the moment. It's a bit of a waste of time trying to convince someone to like something they aren't particularly bothered about.

Envelope folding and using the square rising boxes above are two of the key reasons why the baguettes are my favourite daily bake. The folding is key when using higher hydration. Baguettes are still my preferred daily loaf. Sometimes morning and evening.

:)

Ah, Poilane. So overpriced!

I do like Gails, although that's partly because it's available on Ocado...

Before they opened in the UK, I had some Poilane overnighted from Paris at some considerable cost. The problem was that the driver was a smoker and he delivered the bread absolutely full of stale tobaco. I think the loaf of bread cost me nearly £40 and it was binned.

I had a mate who is a real sourdough nut taste my final loaf and he pronounced it better than Gails except it's shape and I'm happy it was a reasoanbly optimal example. Much of my cooking is simply time wasting ie perfecting or trying something for the sake of it, and this was that. I spent a couple of years on batters for example and other deep frying .....:D

I think they great discovery from a bread viewpoint is how easy it is for those that travelled to France a generation or so ago and yearn for proper bread they use to eat when it was fully prepared in bakery - and how much easier it is tahn they probably think to recreate that in the kitchen. Poolish, small amount of rye, envelope folding, and steam. The other thing is the simplicty of making real home made pizza which as we all know is about the base and not the topping which is less is more.

Everyone knows the secret of good pizza is in the sauce.

I strongly disagree that it dies in 3 weeks. We can go 1-2 months at times without waking our 25 year old starter. Seal it in the fridge. When you want to use it, take it out 1 day in advance. Mix it AND ALL THE LIQUID on top with a ratio of 1 cup water to 1 cup bread flour. Feed it twice a day until you want to use it. When it is awake, the starter makes a great base for pancakes as well.

Best bread I've ever tried in the UK was from the Flint Owl Bakery in Lewes (the reason I got turned on to the Stoates & Sons flour from Cann Mills). In London, hands down favourite sourdough is from Fabrique next to Hoxton Station. I can get good results from the same Shipton Mill flour they use there. However, they really bring out this wonderful "creamy" quality the flour has much better than I can.

I bit the bullet and did it. My starter is now a paste of 4 oz whole wheat flour and 4 oz tepid water. It's in a glass bowl on top of the fridge, with a dish towel on top. Fingers crossed! I'll feed it tomorrow evening and hope to see some activity.

Keeping it fed and attended to seems like a marvellous New Year's project. Best of luck, happy spawning!

Good day.

It would be interesting to take some pics mapping it's progress.

Remember to always take and stock up on those shower hats from the hotel bathrooms .....;)

Good luck!

Here she is after about 12 hours - looks pretty much the same as when made. There might be the faintest whiff of a sour smell, but I could be imagining it.

http://i.imgur.com/Kal41DAl.jpg

Thanks Dave,

If you have a kilner jar you might want to grow it in that, and then you can take piccies from the side. Does look pretty brown! :D

Is this because you love sourdough or is it sadly like me - just the challenge of producing the first loaf?

I find I much prefer the taste of poolish/biga based breads and they are so much less demanding .... but this as everything is all personal taste! I like the idea of thinking a day or two ahead and seeing something and tasting less intense than sour but more flavour than one- day bread.

Looking forward to seeing your first loaves.

:)