indufan

OK, there are going to be two threads this one and another negative one.

Bottom line, which no one here seems to care about, is that this merger has saved the company that I work for thousands of dollars (just for me) and improved my quality of life because I get to pick flights that more match up when I want and need to go someplace.

I have used hubs at DTW, CVG, MSP, ATL, MEM, SLC, and the focus city at IND since the merger. I have been to MSN and NW presence there over Delta gave me many more options on getting in there in a reasonable time frame.

You probably asking yourself how this has save money. Well, CVG, due market forces out of my control, has jumped back up in price and most of my trips have been back out of IND. The fares of combination of Delta and Northwest flights have been sometimes cheaper than either independently. Even if NW was completely cheaper, Delta wasn't over my "limit" and I would previously have purchased that one. How is this good for Delta? Well, in my case I would have picked Delta anyway but others wouldn't. For all the people here .....ing about features and such, don't forget price and price wins a lot of corporate battles and especially now.

I admit that I like the options of using an A319/A320, DC9 vs a CRJ. I don't like CRJ Jetways that NW typically uses because it slows things down so much. Mesaba sucks and I have yet to properly bash them in this forum.

MikeMpls

We're saving money, too. By feeding RR credits back into the trips immediately, our average ticketed price for MSP-STL-MSP on WN is a paltry $189.93. That's a nice drop from NW's traditional $560 (or greater) gouge.

Lots of people will be saving money as a result of this merger, though not necessarily as envisioned by Oscar & JeffBob.

ADLFO

Ya know, if I'm going to complain, it is only fair to give credit where credit is due. People like DeltaWebDev on the DL side and NWA012 on the NW side are so very customer friendly and helpful. I appreciate them as well as the innumerable CRC agents, SMS agents, TAs, GAs, FAs as well as the guys and gals in the front of the plane who really are looking out for us and show it in so many ways. I can only hope that Richard Anderson realizes that he has a gem of an organization that is being jeapordized by a very few members of upper managment. Ah, but this is about the positive. To everyone I mentioned above, thanks!

indufan

I hate it because this good thread got so little traffic and the other one got so much the other way. I suppose it is human nature to talk more about the bad than the good.

Anyway, CVG prices are way down...honestly probably under market price.

I have continued to say money for the company that I work for by using all of the routes that DL/NW now offer.

We are getting some of the cross fleeting in now. We need more of it. I am on a CRJ 50 seat on Sunday, CVG-DFW. Give me a DC-9. Give me a CR9! Some of the flights are CR9 but others aren't.

MikeMpls

The CVG fares are down in an apparent bid to deter WN from entering the market. Traditional wisdom is that WN drives new business by lowering fares.

In view of WN's latest moves, that model seems to be shifting. WN is moving into the MSP-DEN market, where fares are already pretty much bottomed out. Service startups at LGA & BOS also defy their model.

If I were DL, I would not not view any hub as a safe fortress any longer.

Condolences on that CRJ.

Feather Man

I suppose there is a chance you are correct about the potential entry of WN to CVG, but I don't think so. Instead, I think this is DL laying the ground work to de-hub CVG at a later date. After all the promises made to Congress to facilitate the merger, DL needs to be able to justify the decision to lose a hub somewhere, and by popular consent, CVG is the most likely (even though it is not the most logical) to eliminate. In the past, it was hard to complain about low O/D traffic at CVG when you are the fortress carrier charging the highest fares in the country for something like four years straight. Now, DL has introduced low fares from CVG. If CVG O/D traffic does not pick up and support DL, voila ! DL now has a legitimate excuse to ax CVG as a hub.

WN has other airports within the driving distance of CVG. Adding CVG would likely dilute their traffic at the other area airports with little net gain.

MikeMpls

DL is obligated to shed a hub??????????? Documentation?

I'm not a aware that they have to shed anything. Even the 49% ownership of YX passed muster.

In any case, I said DL was trying to head off WN, not that WN was setting up shop in CVG. There are bigger fish for WN to fry first.

Feather Man

Quite the contrary. DL made promises to Congress ( or at the very least, implied strongly) that they would keep ALL hubs. But I think most people would agree that at some point, DL will need to divest themselves of at least one of their hubs.

If WN has bigger fish to fry than CVG, and you and I are both aware of that, why do you presume DL would not also make the same assumption?

MikeMpls

If it wasn't stipulated as a condition when the treasury Dept. approved the merger, it's not required. Period. End of story. "Promises" to Congress aren't worth any more than promises from Congress.

My prediction is that WN will be in CVG, ATL, MEM withing 2-4 years. There probably won't be any more expansion beyond LGA & BOS in 2009. After that, it's an open book.

But competitive fares are always a consumer benefit!

jfulcher

Side bet on the ATL thing? DL and FL will slaughter WN before they can even get going. Not to mention They couldn't get more than 1 or 2 gates. B6 already tried. DL and FL had fares ATL-LAX down to $160 including tax and B6 left.

tjisnumbaone

Yes, DL pretty much emptying CVG on mainline and converting it to RJ service. WN would try MSP, MDW, BWI, probably PHL. Those are all DL RJ services. With DL having only one service to every west coast city, those prices are higher vs. ATL, where you have a plane leaving every couple hours.

I heard WN is going to do 10 flights a day from BOS - 5 to MDW and 5 to BWI. AA can drop prices down and send all 738 or bigger planes to ORD to compete against WN. BWI can be easily upgraded into an M88, and those ATL-HSV and ATL-CLT can take the CRJ's.

ATL and DTW are definitely secure, as they dominate there. MSP is somewhat secure. SLC and MEM are vulnerable. JFK and CVG are very vulnerable.

WBurcham

Hi Kiddo... I know that you think you understand what's going on but you continue to spew stuff right out of your rear.

JFK in one of the world's largest O/D markets in which DL has a massive presence.


SLC is not vulnerable. Delta would NOT give up their largest west coast presence. LAX hasn't seemed to gain any traction in the ULH, transcon, mid-con or short haul flights.

DTW is a convenient connecting hub with a smaller O/D market when compared to JFK/ATL.

MikeMpls

A month ago I wouldn't have argued with this. But I would bet (lunch or drinks when we cross at a DO) that WN will have 1-2 gates at ATL within 4 years. Their model is shifting, as is shown by the MSP-DEN service where fares are already depressed and there is no WN effect to be had on that immediate route.

B6 is only a fraction the size of WN and a lot easier to bully. WN is actually larger than DL (not counting NW) or FL, quite possibly larger than DL+FL. In terms of the # of passengers carried, DL+NW is not even much larger than WN. It's a different game that can backfire since WN can fight back by depressing fares on a much larger # of city pairs than B6. Advantage WN in this case since their overhead is lower. DL & FL will bleed much more easily.

You can already see the difference in tactics at MSP -- the predatory pricing that drove ATA out isn't happening this time around.

I posted more on WN's apparent shift here earlier. I think we're going to see a different WN emerging.

crhptic

Which one do you think is more logical to eliminate? MEM?

Xeno

Back to the OP, I am changing a June DL flight to Europe over to NW for better fares, routes, equipment, and seat selection. Also much the same story last month OKC-MSP-PDX.