TexasFlyer

Delta is going to codeshare with China Southern. Am I being cynical or naive or just plain chicken because I am not interested in getting on China Southern to earn Delta frequent flyer miles? Seems Delta is dropping to third-tier in some of its "partners".

leroy11

Texas Flyer:
Although it is fair to say that China Southern probably does not have the same service and safety standards as some of DL's other partners, I would be surprised if China Southern was worse in these regards than other Chinese carriers. The flip side of the coin is that this new route be Delta's only route to China. In order to do this, Delta would have had to do itself (unlikely) or code-share with another Chinese airline - probably about the same standard as China Southern. So, although many people may not want to fly this new route, as least it's another opportunity for those of us who want to explore different countries and areas of the world that US and European airlines do not fly to - namely Guangzhou. It should also be noted that some of Delta's existing partners do not have particularly high service and safety standards and could qualify to be "third-tier carriers" as you put it. These include Malev Hungarian Airlines - code-share JFK --> Bucharest and Frankfurt --> Bucharest. Also, Delta Air Lines recently signed an agreement with a small Venezuelan airline that I can not remember the name of. Most Latin American airlines - with the possible exceptions of Varig, Avianca and Lan Chile - are notorious for not having very high safety standards. Delta's current Asian partner, Korean Air, is not known for its high safety standards.

So, I think it's important to view this new route as a new opportunity for travellers to reach south-eastern China.

Catman

I do not know much about China Southern, and I wish Delta luck with this code-share arrangement.

But many of the Third World and smaller airlines (and one big one: AeroFLOP) scare me when my travel agent says "OH You'll save hundreds by going on this airline."

China air is also among the worst. I felt like I was in Stalin's private plane. If I'm flying around China I would hope to do it by United or Cathay Pacific or Singapore Or Thailand (I'll even take the train, which was nice for atmostpheriic value.)

Malev got off the ground fine and go there fine. I was in first so maybe the flight was not as bad as it could have been. But The F-A kept confusing the safety directions.

I would be curious to know the safety record of China SOuthern. Wasn't there a domestic Chinese Airliner that crashed last week?

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CATMAN

TexasFlyer

My point was that it's becoming rather sad that most of the first-tier carriers are in the United or American alliances and the quality of Delta's partners seems to be decreasing. If I were "Ms. Delta," not sure I'd want my name so closely associated with some of them.

leroy11

True - point taken!

Catman

You are correct, Texas Flyer... it is sad that Delta, which is supposed to be one of the Premier airlines is going with the lower end of airlines for an alliance.

It has some good airlines (SwissAir, Austrian) but something like China Southern is weak.

Maybe Delta needs to FULLY team up with another major and premier international carrier to attract the better airlines.

LIke... UNITED? OR Continental?



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CATMAN

Rudi

the PROBLEM is that neither UA nor Continental are (outside the North-American-Hemisphere) really big global "players" - and Delta partners in Europe (Swissair/Austrian) are qualitywise high & nice but small (that's why Delta is flirting with Air France). And UA doesn't need DL as partner to cover other continents - UA do this with their StarAlliance partners: very good coverage of Europe with LH and SAS, great coverage of Downunder with Air NewZealand and Ansett Australia, reasonable coverage of Asia with Thai (Singapore?) and ANA, good coverage of Sout America with VARIG - they need still better coverage of Africa (just some LH and one Varig-flight).

leroy11

There is an interesting thread in the British Airways forum that noted that China Eastern, China Southern and Dragon Air are in negotiations with One World about joining the alliance ...

650

Catman, it was China Southern that crashed.
Check this address:
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/prc.htm

Beckles

Out of curiosity, why is everyone claiming that China Southern is a "third-tier" airline? Is there anything more than the fact that China is in the airlines name backing this up?

According to the webpage that our new friend "650" posted, China Southern has had three major accidents since 1982. One of those involved a hijacked plane crashing into their plane, so I wouldn't exactly think that was their fault.

China Souther is also committed to improving it's safety record as much as any airline it would appear, as evidenced by this:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/990225/china_so_a_1.html

They also appear to have a modern fleet of both Boeing and Airbus aircraft (I can't find though whether they operate any Russian types, but I have found reference to 737's, 757's, 777's, and A320's being delivered/used).

The accident last week was not China Southern, but China Southwest.

TheAuditor

I have flown quite a few Chinese airlines in recent years and here are my two cents: Their domestic First class and international business or First are generally comparable to the western airlines, with the exception of China Eastern, whose International First Class was worst in my memory, partially because smoking is allowed by that carrier. All Chinese carries are owned by the government. Air China is the flagship carrier and has one of the best safety records. (Note that China Airlines, infamous in recent years, are based in Taiwan and often got confused with Air China). Air China has entered into code-share arrangements with NW, CO, and HP. (CO also has limited code-share relationship with China Airlines.) China Southern, to my knowledge, has the larget passenger volumn in China and has some of the newest planes. They use Boeing 777 on long flights over the water. Most of the senior government/business officials that I know rank Air China first, China Southern second and China Eastern third as their preferred airlines. By the way, Catman, I would recommed against travelling by train in China, unless you can get into First Class. The locals often carry most of what they own with them in trains. Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by TheAuditor (edited 03-02-99).]

650

Of course China Southwest, not China Southern. Mea culpa.



[This message has been edited by 650 (edited 03-02-99).]

Catman

Thanks for all the reviews of China Southern, and the train story from you, AUditor.

IN fact, thanks to my wise judgement my friend Rick & I avoided the smoky "cattle Car" of the trains. We did travel in first class, although our companions did smoke most of the way.

Rick said taking a train was a great way to see the country and meet different people. It was an unusual experience. No one at the railroad station ticket offices (except Shanghai) spoke English, it was confusing and yes, indeed everyone brought all their belongings and children and chickens and animals and other gear aboard. (A LOT OF CIGARETTE SMOKING. First thing I did in Shanghai was soak my clothes!)

A strange thing: Everyone was taking my picture (I was goateeless and thinner at the time.) I guess they never saw a JERZEE BOY before!

Next time I'll fly.

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CATMAN

Chatter

Yes! Air China has been keeping a safe flying record for more than 20 years (I think), and I know the China Southern is using some of the most modern plane in this planet, 777, A330, 737,.......

When I once flied with the China Southern economy from inland China to HK, I am thrilled that they served hot buns(with little bits of cereal on top) with their meal, I am sure that this won't happen to any of the Amercian or Western airline to serve hot buns in the economy cabin

leroy11

DELTA AIR LINES, CHINA SOUTHERN AIRLINES START
CODESHARE SERVICE BETWEEN LOS ANGELES, GUANGZHOU

26 Mar 1999


ATLANTA, GA, March 26, 1999 -- Delta Air Lines and China Southern
Airlines will start nonstop codeshare service between Los Angeles and
Guangzhou, China Sunday, March 28, 1999. China Southern Airlines operates the
route three times per week using state-of-the-art Boeing 777 aircraft.

In making the announcement, Maurice Worth, Delta’s chief operating
officer, said, “In a global economy, carriers like Delta must extend their
reach to meet the demands of their customers by providing access to
destinations around the world.

“China is a major player in the new global economy. Delta’s expansion
into China is one of the most important and exciting strategic moves we have
made recently. As trade between our two nations continues to expand, Delta
will be in a position to grow and expand its level of service,’’ Worth added.

China Southern Airlines Group President Yan Zhiqing said, “This new
relationship opens tremendous new travel opportunities for passengers
traveling from China to the USA.”

“China Southern Airlines has been looking for a strategic partner since
the maiden service from Guangzhou to Los Angeles in 1997 to bring into full
play the strong points of the two cooperative parties. Delta is a solid
company with strong financial status. I’m confident that we will achieve a
great success as long as we stick to the principal of mutual assistance,” he
said.

The codeshare arrangement is a two-way partnership. While Delta will
purchase seats between Los Angeles and Guangzhou, China Southern Airlines will
book space on Delta flights from Los Angeles to Atlanta; Las Vegas; Honolulu;
Dallas-Ft. Worth; New York (JFK Airport); Portland, OR; and San Francisco.

The arrangement with China Southern Airlines will enable Delta to
fulfill its long-standing desire to provide service to China. The codeshare
arrangement enables Delta to overcome governmental and operational constraints
that currently make direct service unfeasible.

In addition to codesharing, the two carriers will engage in reciprocal
frequent flyer program participation. China Southern Airlines has announced
that it will participate in Delta’s SkyMiles program, and Delta plans to join
China Southern's SkyPearl program, which was launched in November of last
year.

Ranked No. 1 in passengers carried in China for the past 20 years,
China Southern Airlines connects more than 80 cities around the globe. Major
business and vacation destinations served in China include Hong Kong,
Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou, Guilin and Kunming with daily international
service from Chinese airports to Amsterdam, Los Angeles, Singapore, Kuala
Lumpur, Osaka, Bangkok, Manila and Ho Chi Minh City.

Delta, named Airline of the Year by Air Transport World magazine, is the
world’s most flown carrier. More than 105 million passengers traveled on
Delta in 1998. Delta, Delta Express, the Delta Shuttle, the Delta Connection
carriers and Delta's Worldwide Partners operate 5,211 flights each day to 353
cities in 56 countries.