Number of PMs GMs and FOs

 
Old Sep 20, 09, 12:28 am
  #1  
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Number of PMs GMs and FOs

Does anyone know the current number of PMs, GMs and FOs? Same for 2008?

I know that I have asked these questions before on FT, but from time to time some threads suggest that some who know are willing to share this info, e.g.:

Originally Posted by stephem View Post
I've heard that DL has the expectation is there will only be a few thousand Diamonds...
Originally Posted by ResSalesGuy View Post
....They are estimating 450k gld members...150k Pm...
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Old Sep 20, 09, 10:58 am
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Originally Posted by DP-340 View Post
Does anyone know the current number of PMs, GMs and FOs? Same for 2008?

I know that I have asked these questions before on FT, but from time to time some threads suggest that some who know are willing to share this info, e.g.:
<sarcasm>
DM (qualified as of now): 956
PM: 9,549
GM: 23,332
FO: 25,399
</sarcasm>

some threads do certainly suggest that some know ... but never ever do we get any concrete numbers ... and I don't plan on it ever happening.

It is a stat that us geeks would like to know, but other than just knowing for the sake of knowing why would an airline publish this data? What benefit does it offer them?

I guess if an airline has the lowest numbers it would allow them to tout the fact that their elite levels aren't bloated, but other than that ...
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Old Sep 20, 09, 11:00 am
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666,666
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Old Sep 20, 09, 11:03 am
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Originally Posted by DLATL777 View Post
666,666
I was expecting 42.
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Old Sep 20, 09, 11:06 am
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I know the answer: 42



ETA: doh - hdawg, great minds...
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Old Sep 20, 09, 11:36 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by hdawg View Post
some threads do certainly suggest that some know ... but never ever do we get any concrete numbers ... and I don't plan on it ever happening.

It is a stat that us geeks would like to know, but other than just knowing for the sake of knowing why would an airline publish this data? What benefit does it offer them?

I guess if an airline has the lowest numbers it would allow them to tout the fact that their elite levels aren't bloated, but other than that ...
I do know there will be 2 more from here by the end of the year. It will be very helpful to plan routes for us when we do fly to know the stats on likely upgrades. I wonder if I need my reserve card next year. Knowing these numbers will help.

Perhaps we should ask DL at the next Do to give us numbered DM / PM cards each year when we qualify. For the obsessive status minded, there can be a new race to first to FO / GM / PM / DM etc.

I do not think there can be 450k gold members. Only 2% of the country earns more than 200,000 in a year. That is about 6 M people and of the taxpayers, about 2 M. Even then I am not sure all of these guys are flying that much and that too, on DL. Of course there is a huge lot who travel on other peoples money. That is the sector that is down greatly this year.
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Old Sep 20, 09, 12:38 pm
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Originally Posted by ADLFO View Post
I know the answer: 42


Thanks Adolfo; it was worth a try...
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Old Sep 20, 09, 12:43 pm
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Originally Posted by hdawg View Post
I was expecting 42.
Can you repeat the question?
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Old Sep 20, 09, 12:48 pm
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Originally Posted by ffI View Post
I do know there will be 2 more from here by the end of the year. It will be very helpful to plan routes for us when we do fly to know the stats on likely upgrades. I wonder if I need my reserve card next year. Knowing these numbers will help.

Perhaps we should ask DL at the next Do to give us numbered DM / PM cards each year when we qualify. For the obsessive status minded, there can be a new race to first to FO / GM / PM / DM etc.

I do not think there can be 450k gold members. Only 2% of the country earns more than 200,000 in a year. That is about 6 M people and of the taxpayers, about 2 M. Even then I am not sure all of these guys are flying that much and that too, on DL. Of course there is a huge lot who travel on other peoples money. That is the sector that is down greatly this year.
A few things. How in the world does it help on upgrades to know how many Elites there are? Knowing these numbers would also help DL's competitors. I'm not aware of any airline that openly discloses their FF numbers. If you really want to make it a race, I'd suggest spending New Year's Day on a plane and while simultaneously spending on your multiple American Express cards to hit the MQM thresholds.

Also, I don't get what making $200,000+ has to do with being an Elite or not. As there are people that make $200,000+ and have never step on a commerical aircraft (or any aircraft for that matter), there are plenty of people that make less than $50,000 and are Elite.
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Old Sep 20, 09, 12:59 pm
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Logic would dictate that the airlines will always keep this information pretty close hold. If it is a huge number everbody immediately gets disillusioned with the FF Program because the competition for awards is so great, if the number is frightenly low people start to question the viabilitiy of the airline or at least the program.

Now if you want to feel special about your own status, or boost your self-esteem, there are many far more pleasant ways of doing that than strapping an aluminum tube to your backside for half a year with 250 of your newest best friends.
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Old Sep 20, 09, 1:04 pm
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Originally Posted by AndyTLe View Post
A few things. How in the world does it help on upgrades to know how many Elites there are? Knowing these numbers would also help DL's competitors. I'm not aware of any airline that openly discloses their FF numbers. If you really want to make it a race, I'd suggest spending New Year's Day on a plane and while simultaneously spending on your multiple American Express cards to hit the MQM thresholds.

Also, I don't get what making $200,000+ has to do with being an Elite or not. As there are people that make $200,000+ and have never step on a commerical aircraft (or any aircraft for that matter), there are plenty of people that make less than $50,000 and are Elite.
Totally agree. What you make has nothing to do with it. I have done very well for myself over the last 10 years but early-on I was making $50k and flying business to LHR/DUB every month and logging a total of 150-200K miles a year.

True flying "elites" are not going to lower themselves to fly commercially...I am doing very well but not THAT well yet

BTW, there are gobs of people who are already Diamond for the next 2 years (I am one) so ffi is way behind if that that is supposed to be some kind of measure of elite-ness ????
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Old Sep 20, 09, 3:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Slow learner View Post
Logic would dictate that the airlines will always keep this information pretty close hold. If it is a huge number everbody immediately gets disillusioned with the FF Program because the competition for awards is so great, if the number is frightenly low people start to question the viabilitiy of the airline or at least the program.

Now if you want to feel special about your own status, or boost your self-esteem, there are many far more pleasant ways of doing that than strapping an aluminum tube to your backside for half a year with 250 of your newest best friends.
That last sentence was not nice and certainly not constructive, but if you want to know my motives for asking are simple: curiosity and estimating my likelihood of upgrades. For example, during the last 12 months we had a large number of MQM promotions and a recession; I am curious to know if the number of PMs is up or down.

I don't agree with your assessment in bold. The numbers are only relevant when compared to previous years. Knowing there are, say 150k PMs now does not provide us much information. But if we were told, in addition, that there were 450k PMs in 2009 (or 50k PMs) that would be valuable information for current PMs.

I am sure that large investors have access to this information and was really hoping that we would get some real estimates (in addition to a few jokes).

Last edited by DP-340; Sep 20, 09 at 3:25 pm
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Old Sep 20, 09, 3:43 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by DP-340 View Post
I am sure that large investors have access to this information and was really hoping that we would get some real estimates (in addition to a few jokes).
Google 'Regulation FD', please.
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Old Sep 20, 09, 3:48 pm
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Originally Posted by DP-340 View Post

I am sure that large investors have access to this information and was really hoping that we would get some real estimates (in addition to a few jokes).
I doubt that large investors would have that type of information. There might be a few people at Amex that would be privledged to the FF member breakdown (under very strict confidentiality agreements), but I doubt that any investor or other Skymiles partner would get any FF information other than total number of Skymiles members.
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Old Sep 20, 09, 4:00 pm
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Originally Posted by ADLFO View Post
I know the answer: 42



ETA: doh - hdawg, great minds...
or is it the square root of minus one divided by zero.

<lol>

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