MikeMpls

If true that would really be a really sad reflection on the rest of the industry. From DOT's Air Travel Consumer Report reflecting July data:In each of the 5 categories above, there are at least 3 other legacies (not counting NW which also usually ranks higher than DL) with better rankings than DL.

If Delta is "arguably our best carrier", one has to ask, "best of what"?

k2

Perception: DL is a southern airline (yes, that is the perception)
Reality: these days that is hooey

DL's relentless campaign to associate 'world's largest' with the brand is proof enough that perception is a powerful force.

inyourvillages

Well, the consumers weren't the ones demanding deregulation. The airlines did it to themselves.

idayvuelta

I'm including NW at this point and speaking wholistically. While WN is a lovely airline (serious!) they are simply not a realistic airline for people whose world goes beyond Tampa and Omaha. This is exacerbated by their lack of flying partners, alliances, and code shares (to say nothing of their lack of a real elite program, and the fact that I have never been able to find a better deal on Southwest). I'm New York based and their recent entrance into Laguardia is helpful but still doesn't do enough to address the nation's largest air market and financial capital. That in essence leaves the NW/DL/KL/AF group, UA/LH, AA/BA/IB, US, and CO. Whoever the "best" airline is, as you point out, still woefully inadequate. It's definitely arguable and obviously dependent on where one lives. However I think you could make an argument that Delta presents the best overall product for the money.

DP-340

1. In the 1970's I flew charter airlines a lot (on old 707s) because they were < 1/2 price than major carriers. IMO the difference back then was that major airlines did not try to compete with charters for the bottom and that charters were a relative small sector of the TATL business.
2. I just finished an LAX-ZRH-LAX flight for which I paid $250+tax (for a return ticket, not OW!). With the double miles and the PM bonus I got 39828 miles! That is more than the ticket if you use Pay-By-Miles (PBM)! Hence, I can't imagine how the "bottom is consumer driven"! When I see the global picture I think DL keeps making bad choices, and how the problem is "airline driven"! They have started reducing flights to adjust to the lower demand and that is a good start.
3. From a policy perspective, IMHO DL has opened a Pandora's box through a combination of, skymile promotions left and right, PBM, rollovers, unhappy ~100k MQM PMs, and very cheap TATL/TPAC airfares. BTW I still don't understand how DL would even sell LAX-ZRH-LAX tickets at such a low price when a sLUT LAX-ATL-LAX is typically >$280+tax. They need to reduce flights even more and raise prices, period!

DisneyDude

I you are really that dis-satisfied it's easy, take your business somewhere else.

As for me, I have flown Delta for years . And the number of times that they mess up is far less than the number of times that they have done right by me when something goes wrong. Because of company policy, I sometimes am forced to fly other airlines (CO, UA, US, SW). In most cases I have had worse experieces with them than anything I ever experienced on DL.

fti

Please don't confuse us with FACTS

Hmm. WN carries more domestic passengers than any other US airline. I think they fly to more than TPA and OMA!

I think you are making a case that Delta presents the best overall product for the money FOR YOU. But not overall. Probably hard to say that any airline is "best" overall. And you do know the whole code share and partner hype is just that - hype. Even before alliances (and now) you can interline luggage and check it through to your final destination with most airlines, for example. Yes, it helps with FF earning and redemption but honestly, not too much else.

jfulcher

That's funny - in the past 6 years I've used about 1.1M skymiles all at the Low or formerly SkySaver rate. I earn miles at an awesome rate so even if I had to pay Med it really wouldn't be that bad.

NWA customers need to learn a new economy is all. Sure some things cost a little more, but you earn a lot more. You guys look at things two one dimensionally. However I do think they should transfer your miles over with at least a 20% bonus to kind of level out the economy.

MikeMpls

Great diatribe on WN!

Unfortunately the post to which you're responding has nothing to do with WN and doesn't even mention WN.

Anything you can contribute that might shed some light on Delta's dismal D.O.T. stats?

Crazyhotelguy

Good points.. I would especially agree that the AMEX thing is one that grates my nerves... I do not care for AMEX and the reality is that it is NOT as widely accepted as VISA or MC.

Fort the other posters who pointed out the changes to CO's milage earning policies for thrid party bookings.... Thanks for the info... I will take that into consideration this fall...

dickinson

Maybe the mod's should consider a sticky "Anti-Delta Rants" and these sort of threads could be consolidated.
I am still waiting for any facts backing up OP's assertion that DL flies to Africa for the sole reason that some Atlanta politicians want them to. If there are no facts, then perhaps the comment is extememly inappropriate for this forum.

idayvuelta

Absolutely. They still do no fly internationally, and are only recently entering some of the largest markets in the United States.

Which is exactly what I said. "It's definitely arguable and obviously dependent on where one lives. However I think you could make an argument that Delta presents the best overall product for the money."

Disagree wholeheartedly - and try interlining on southwest when you want to go to one of the thousands of destinations to which they do not fly. Again, for those who fly to Tampa or Omaha or Islip it's irrelevant. To those who fly, say, Detroit - Sandakan, Malaysia it makes a difference. The alliance benefits provided to frequent travelers are tangible as well (leaving aside the "real" purpose of the alliances). And considering that the Malaysia flight was on an 60,000 mile award (and given the forum) it seems insane to brush aside "FF earning and redemption." They are important (perhaps even central) drivers in the airline choices for many FFers.

I was going through the other US-based options, which necessarily includes WN (as you and others mention, the #1 carrier by PAX in the US).

But fair enough - I'm not defending DL's statistics per se anyway. ("Whoever the "best" airline is, as you point out, still woefully inadequate.") That said, you like to tout the DOT statistics, which are interesting but not that compelling.

Using the most recent report most recent report DL in fact lags behind in many categories. Consumer Complaints is, perhaps, the most telling. Southwest has .28/100,000 emplanements, most of the majors have about 1/100,000, and Delta has a whopping 2/100,000. These standings (double US Air for criminey's sake?!) should embarrass Delta. But they don't mean a whole lot to me. The vast overwhelming majority of people have incident-free flights with luggage arriving as promised.

Without rehashing the same tired arguments, the bottom line is I flew Northwest extensively, Continental and American occasionally, and used to fly United and US Air (in addition to international carriers whenever possible). I am largely driven by price and fly to diverse (random?) destinations both domestically and internationally. That has seen me flying more and more of Delta lately, and in almost every instance I have been pleasantly surprised. The JNB-ATL flight was on par with the best international Y experience on any us-based or foreign airline - which is an incredible statement. There is a laundry list of things Delta needs to fix - particularly their IT capabilities, customer service, and their performance in the statistics is ridiculous. Their hard product is arguably tops. Soft product is generally considered better than most. Skymiles is a decent (if not "best in class") program. Their network is really excellent (both foreign and domestic). And pricewise they are often the best deal. It's a debatable whether they're the "best" US airline to be sure. However I doubt many would nominate our beloved NWA for the title, no matter how good WorldPerks was. As always, YMMV.

idayvuelta

+1 - I gave that poster the benefit of the doubt, but the insinuation he is making is offensive and should not get a pass.

DP-340

I think it was unsubstantiated and to me it did not appear to be credible, but I don't think it was offensive. Many on FT give their opinions on a wide range of issues without any backup data. For about 3 months there were hundreds of posts with "guesses" on the DM mileage qualification, and DM "best-in-class" benefits, for example.

Personally what I have found really offensive is:I think we are all smart enough to filter what is factual, probable, and guesses; without a the need for censure. That is the strength of an open forum like FT.

PMMMDL

Most of the chronic complaints I have seen about DL on FT are from NWA flyers that were Platinum by virtue of lots of the cheapest fares and "gaming" the system.

Their major complaints were that they could not get international flights for the cheapest number of miles, and they couldn't upgrade international flights on the cheapest fares.

I postulate that DL might well have determined that these particular customers do little to enhanse Delta's bottom line, and as such have little interest in their complaints and whether they stay with Delta or move their business to another airline.

All the ranting in the world on FT will not change Delta's policies in a case such as this.

Money talks, and something else walks.