Unused segment refund

 
Old May 17, 09, 10:26 am
  #1  
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Unused segment refund

Hi. I am a frequent traveler between ATL-ORD / MDW

Sometimes I find ORD/MDW - ATL - MCO ($100) is cheaper than ORD/MDW - ATL ($120) by $20.

If I travel without checked bag, I book a ticket ORD/MDW - ATL - MCO and use only ORD/MDW - ATL. More than 6 times. But I have not requested a refund for my unused segment.

What if I requeste a refund to Delta for that? Will I get a refund? IF yes, How delta calculate the amount?

Thanks.
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Old May 17, 09, 10:34 am
  #2  
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This is actually against DL's Contract of Carriage that you agreed to by purchasing a ticket. What you're doing is considered part of DL's "Prohibited Ticketing Practices". You're using "hidden city" or "point beyond" ticketing with a false destination point to obtain a lower fare.

Instead of refunding you the "unused segment" DL instead has the option to actually charge you MORE. As been stated on this forum, do it a few times and you should be fine. But doing it as many times as you have is just asking for DL to follow through with one of the options below.

In such cases where there is a violation of our Contract of Carriage, we reserve the right to:
  • Cancel the remainder of the itinerary and confiscate any unused flight coupons.
  • Refuse to board the passenger or check baggage.
  • Charge the passenger for the difference between the fare paid and the fare for the passenger's traveled itinerary.
http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...jsp#prohibited
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Old May 17, 09, 10:39 am
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American Airlines actually provides a good explanation.

Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical. It is tantamount to switching price tags to obtain a lower price on goods sold at department stores. Passengers who attempt to use hidden city tickets may be denied boarding, have the remainder of their ticket confiscated, and may be assessed the difference between the fare paid and the lowest applicable fare.

Because we compete with other airlines with different route structures, we sometimes find it necessary to give a traveller who is traveling beyond a connecting point a better price than travelers who are just traveling to the connecting point. For example, a passenger who is traveling to Austin, Texas, from Los Angeles can go on one airline via Phoenix for a price that is lower than the cost of travelling on American between Los Angeles and Dallas. If we want to offer the same price to Austin as the other airline, but the only way we can get travelers there is via Dallas, we find ourselves charging the Austin passengers less than the Dallas passengers.

Although the issuance and usage of hidden city tickets is not illegal in the sense that one could be fined or sent to jail by the government, it is unethical and a breach of a passengers contract with AA. Both tariff rule 100AA and American's condition of carriage, which are incorporated into every ticket sold by American as part of our agreement to carry the passenger named on the ticket, bar hidden city ticketing. In addition, it violates the agency's contract to act as an agent for American Airlines.

If American Airlines continues to lose revenue as a result of hidden city transactions, the fares we charge must inevitably rise.
http://www.aa.com/aa/intl/be/agency/...ing.jsp#Hidden City Ticketing Policy
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Old May 17, 09, 10:49 am
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Wow... I did not know there are posts about this..

Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical


Well.. I understand different pricing policy of airline companies to maximize their profit.

This is how they do.
Chicago - Orlando... Southwest provides low fare service. Delta wants to compete with it. So DL lower its price.

However, Chicago - Atlanta. Delta does not have to lower the price.

So what happens.

Delta Passenger Chicago-Atlanta-Orland pays $100
Delta Passenger Chicago-Atlanta pays $120

But from airline conpany point of view.
Getting off the aircraft at the connecting point migth be considered as unethical

But from consumer point of view.
Charging more money to people who travel half way is unethical, too.

Yes.. life is unfair...
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Old May 17, 09, 11:34 am
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by poohhead80 View Post
Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical
It's illegal. Now before someone goes into a fit, in this case illegal only means against the rules and not necessarily against the law.
Originally Posted by poohhead80 View Post
But from consumer point of view.
Charging more money to people who travel half way is unethical, too.
No it's not. It's the free market at work. Costs don't have that much to do with price. If it did, then prices would be much higher across the board. Certainly they would be charging a lot more for an automobile. For the most part, companies don't determine prices, consumers do.
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Old May 17, 09, 11:48 am
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Originally Posted by indufan View Post
It's illegal. Now before someone goes into a fit, in this case illegal only means against the rules and not necessarily against the law.

No it's not. It's the free market at work. Costs don't have that much to do with price. If it did, then prices would be much higher across the board. Certainly they would be charging a lot more for an automobile. For the most part, companies don't determine prices, consumers do.
And getting off one segment short is not "the free market working"?

Sound pretty free market to me.
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Old May 17, 09, 12:26 pm
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If airline companies start to sell international flights by one-way like domestic... it is going to be VERY interesting..


I understand airline companies have their own strategy. Also.. passengers have their point of view about free market.

what if Amtrak is going to say LA - San Diego passengers have to pay $80 while SFO - San Diego passengers pays $50 to compete with low fare airlines.
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Old May 17, 09, 11:07 pm
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Originally Posted by poohhead80 View Post
Wow... I did not know there are posts about this..

Purchasing a ticket to a point beyond the actual destination and getting off the aircraft at the connecting point is unethical


Well.. I understand different pricing policy of airline companies to maximize their profit.

This is how they do.
Chicago - Orlando... Southwest provides low fare service. Delta wants to compete with it. So DL lower its price.

However, Chicago - Atlanta. Delta does not have to lower the price.

So what happens.

Delta Passenger Chicago-Atlanta-Orland pays $100
Delta Passenger Chicago-Atlanta pays $120

But from airline conpany point of view.
Getting off the aircraft at the connecting point migth be considered as unethical

But from consumer point of view.
Charging more money to people who travel half way is unethical, too.

Yes.. life is unfair...
It sounds like you are starting to understand the wierdness of airline pricing structures. It has been this way since deregulation and the emergence of low-cost carriers in the domestic US market.

As others have mentioned, using hidden-city ticketing is expressley prohibited in the airline rules.

You can get away with it if you are very discreet and:

- IF you don't check luggage.

- IF you don't put your frequent flyer account on the ticket. (But we are all such mileage hos )

- IF you use different credit cards to purchase tickets. (FF accounts are easiest to track, but they can do it with CC numbers as well.)

- IF you use slight variations on your name (John Doe, J. Doe, Johnny Doe).

- DON'T go requesting refunds for unused segments.

- DON'T go on a crusade about the pricing structure. Only re-regulation will fix that.

In the old days, Delta's infamous Revenue Protection Unit (RPU) would mine the data looking for offenders. The usual penalty was to close the SkyMiles account and remove all the points.
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Old May 18, 09, 10:29 am
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Originally Posted by keeton View Post
- DON'T go requesting refunds for unused segments.
Almost as bad as calling the airline about a fare mistake...
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Old May 18, 09, 11:38 am
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Originally Posted by keeton View Post
In the old days, Delta's infamous Revenue Protection Unit (RPU) would mine the data looking for offenders. The usual penalty was to close the SkyMiles account and remove all the points.
I do not have Delta Skymile account.. I am getting Korean air miles. I guess if Delta wants to punish me, Delta will have a hard time to find a reasonable penaly for me...

I will not take a risk again for $10 - 20 difference. (quesstionable if it is $50 difference )

One interesting story.

MY friend did the same thing. However, he call Korean air and requested miles which he did not fly. For exmaple, he bought tickets MDW-ATL-MCO and flew MDW-ATL. FAX copies of two boarind passes to Korean air and got the both miles. (maybe Korean air thought Delta gate agent did not scan the second pass)
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