Robert Leach

With all due respect, sir, I disagree. Once upon a time, a full beverage service was indeed provided -- WITH TIME TO SPARE -- on 37 minute flights (which just coincidentally just happens to be the flight time ATL-TRI, one of my regular flights on ASA). On a 50 seat RJ with one FA, it was never a problem to roll the cart and get this done in plenty of time. It is not "almost impossible" to do. For that matter, when ATL-TRI was mainline back in the early 90's, you not only got a beverage service on the flight, you also got a warm muffin as a breakfast snack in the mornings.

I remember the day when Delta even attempted to provide a beverage service on mainline aircraft ATL-TYS (flight time 28 minutes). I will grant you that this was not possible with a full flight once flight attendant staff numbers were scaled back to FAA minimums.

I use the word "stingy" because when you at one point in time provide a service and then suddenly remove it or water it down, it clearly was budget motivated. I realize you don't pay to fly, but many of these short haul RJ flights to southeastern markets are priced disproportionately high on a per-mile basis -- so, YES, it is stingy to cut corners to this extent when you're charging $200 one way, or more, for a 37 minute flight in a 50 seat RJ.

And even if the service is cut, to suggest as you did that management would frown upon flight attendants trying to provide the service nonetheless is very disappointing.

nachosdelux

Where I work, the sterile cockpit rule (essential communication only, below 10000 feet) is strictly followed. People respect and follow the rule, and are not afraid to remind others to comply (be quiet) in case they are not doing so.

I have a friend who is a NTSB investigator, and he rides in the jumpseat of airliners frequently. He told me that he was shocked how frequently the sterile cockpit rule is broken when he is on regional airlines.

Tom Williams

I don't think that pulling back on the controls during a stall is the correct response on ANY aircraft.

OK, I am not a pilot, but I have been paying close attention to all things aviation for a long time, and I have even been at the controls of a T-34 during a stall (intentional). Maybe some of the pilots who have chimed in here can comment on this point:

I believe most commercial aircraft have automatic systems to help a pilot quickly determine that he is in a stall, and get out of it. There is a distinctive audible warning (we passengers frequently hear it during the pre-flight checks), and some sort of tactile feedback in the controls ("stick shaker"?).

The article I read said that this aircraft also had a system which initiated the first response to the onset of a stall, i.e. pushing down on the controls (the "stick pusher"). It was this automatic action of the stick which the pilot did not understand, and overrode it, resulting in loss of lift and the crash.

I have the expectation that a pilot should instantly understand a stall warning for what it is in any aircraft type which he is allowed to fly. That this pilot did not understand such a fundamental feature of his aircraft speaks quite clearly to me that he was not qualified to be in either seat of the cockpit.

Am I wrong about this?

Pharaoh

Absolutely correct. The key thing is to recognize the onset of a stall before the stall itself actually occurs. This is taught during the first hour or two of instruction and then more or less continuously throughout training.

Pushing the nose down should be an instinctive response for any pilot in any aircraft. And it can be done gently and under control so that even if the pilot misjudged the incipient stall, nobody in the back will ever notice (well, maybe a few of us...).

DLfan

I'm NOT arguing that the rule is no service on ATL-VPS flights; but, I still question how this is decided. Delta.com lists the distance as 251 miles...so, if the rule is 250 and below (according to zsmith2), where's the service attempt? If the rule sometimes encompasses flights longer than 250 (i.e. 251 miles), then what is the 'real' distance rule?

I realize that we've all been conditioned to believe it to be impossible and unneccesary, but it is not impossible. How long does it take to walk through with bottled water and a bag of peanuts? On a CRJ700, there are two FAs; so, on a full flight, that's 35 pax each. Even if it took a minute with each pax (which it doesn't), that's plenty of time. I am routinely on short flights in the Middle East and Europe where a snack box and beverage service is provided on flights with 100+ seats.

tonypct

I hope you post just as much on the CO and WN boards as you post here.

SchmutzigMSP

Why? Chances are the CO and WN boards are already aware of what he's posting.

bigsaabowski

The flight attendants get the mileage from the pilots' flight plan, which lists the mileage in nautical miles. 251 statute miles is approximately 220 nautical miles.

jbatl

Worth reading ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/nyregion/17pilot.html

zsmith2

I disagree.....Delta.com lists
"Flight Distance: 250 miles
Travel Time:1 hr 10 min"

All I have to say this is not the 80's or 90's. Cost is everything in this business now. If you really want something to drink just ask. No harm no foul.

jhdflyer

$12.50 an hour may be right for ASA crews. I know for a fact that none of them are instrument rated because as soon as there are a few clouds in the sky or some rain the flights are cancelled or delayed, at least out of TLH to ATL.

TTT

Um, they have to be instrument rated.

bwhite

I think it was a joke. Anyone who has flown RJs between TLH and ATL knows that you can expect delays/cancellations when there's weather.

amps

So with this healthy debate about crew competence, crew rest, pay scale etc.... would ANYBODY on this board think it would be a passengers right to ask the pilot and crew if they have had enough rest if something didn't look right to him/her? Of course they will never tell you the truth but still, is it within my rights to ask???? I've seen some worn out pilots / FA's and have been very tempted to ask when was the last time they slept or since when have they started their shift, however, fear of getting booted off the plane has always made me hold my tounge.

StayingHomeIsBetter

Sounds like the pathway to an "interfering with flight crew" charge... especially if they are truly sleep deprived and irritable.

Another way to handle this would be to deplane and tell the GA that the crew (or a particular member) looks too tired and you are uncomfortable flying with them. How do you suppose DL would respond to that?

But, while I identify with your concern, how confident are you that you can identify someone who is sleep deprived, based upon a casual observation? I consult in an industry where some (better) companies train supervisors on how to identify workers whose abilities might be negatively impacted by inadequate rest. However, they have ample opportunity to closely observe those workers before making such a determination.