Joe Kaiser

I have a question for the pilots out there...forget about all the other issues with this crash for a minute...with respect to the talking about non-business below 10,000 feet, is this something that gets broken often but nobody cares because everyone lands safely or is this very serious (ie the co-pilot would consider telling on the pilot if he started talking about his kids)

If the above is not clear, here's a better way to ask... Is there a "blue code of silence" about this type of stuff and nobody really cares or is this a big deal wherein most pilots would be appalled if someone started talking about sports, etc below 10,000...just curious...

DLfan

Not sure I can agree with this. On my ATL-VPS flights, I routinely hear the "due to the short duration of today's flight..." announcement from ASA, which means there will be NO service. On the rare ocassion when this route is flown by Delta and on other routes of even shorter duration flown by Delta, a beverage service is generally attempted. I don't know who makes the decision about when a beverage service is attempted on ASA flights, but it doesn't appear to be Delta. Regardless of the rule(s) in play here, it makes the ASA crews seem disinterested or lazy (just my perception).

I'm not claiming that a beverage service is essential on a 45 minute flight, just making the point that the service is inconsistent.

TTT

That is a good point and I agree that the military offers very good training for pilots. There are people in their 20s doing very difficult and dangerous jobs in the military and they do them very well - a product of excellent training and support.

However, and this is just an assumption, because the two men in their 20s flying last night were in a Compass E175 and not flying a military jet leads me to believe they were not military trained. I did not mean to imply that people in their 20s can't perform as well as older pilots, simply that they cannot have had the same OJT that pilots in mid career have had - and OJT can mean a lot when it comes to split second decisions.

Also Carolina blue is a far superior color than Duke blue (Only kidding)

Evan!

Every surgeon performed his first surgery on someone. Every pilot flew someone on his first commercial flight. Am I making my point? Of course, everyone wants the super-experienced professional for their needs but SOMEBODY has to be a doctor's first as well as a pilot's. But for some reason the graying slightly-grizzled male gives people piece of mind (can you say "Sully"?). I agree with DukeBBFan. A 40 year-old novice is just as inexperienced as a 30 or 25-year old novice. So age should have nothing to do with it. We trust our country to the 18-30 crowd from bombs, to fighter jets, to tanks. Perhaps the visual acuity, reflexes, and physical strengths should be put up against years-and-year or thousands of hours of experience. Would Sully have been able to out-arm wrestle the now-deceased pilot of the Colgan flight? Personally I would rather have a younger, stronger pilot assisting me into a life raft or prying a bulkhead off of me than someone... well, you get the idea.

Age, or lack thereof != an unsafe situation.

Experience often leads to complacency and "phoning it in". There are pluses and minuses to both but I see the media focusing solely on the experience issue.

With that said, even if I were to pass all the entrance exams to an Ivy League school I probably would be denied if I had failed several courses in high school. So even though this pilot passed all the tests after he was hired by Colgan, the past failures are relevant in my book. His age however, is not relevant.

bigsaabowski

Actually Colgan has had at least one other fatal crash. Granted, it was a repo flight and there were no passengers on board:

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/185595-1.html

zsmith2

Poloicy is walk through/requests on routes 250 miles and less. Unfortunatly ATL-VPS fits that requirement. And this mirrors the same rquirements mainline Delta has put in place.

Maybe Mesaba will provide better service.

bwhite

Like most here I have flown on RJs since they were introduced. For a while I prefered them but over the last couple of years have become disenchanted with them. It's not a matter of questioning safety or if the crew is capable, I simply don't like being squeezed into small seats rubbing shoulders with another PAX who is equally uncomfortable. When a 70 minute episode of rubbing shoulders turns into a 90 or 100 minute session plus I then miss my connection I have little tolerance for it. Even if it's not the regional's fault, I don't really care. The product is not the same and I have a better overall experience on larger planes.

I continue to place my trust in regional crews without hesitation but don't be offended when I don't want to be there in the first place.

sushibear

Not in one instance, but over a period of time they might. I've had friends who were surgical residents who I know went into surgery when they were too tired to think or react appropriately in an emergency. I wonder the same about hospital pharmacists and the nurses who dispense medication. No one works well without adequate rest, but the issue is more critical for those who deal with life and death situations.

DLfan

Such a policy would be easy enough to understand, but Delta lists this flight as 251 miles. In addition, sometimes a full beverage service is provided. My issue is not whether or not there is a service; but, the inconsistency of the service.

Re: Mesaba...did you get my PM last week?

flightattendantsteve

Sorry DLFan.. But your incorrect... from Delta.Com... ATL-VPS is walk through/by request only .... If our mainline FA's are attempting a Beverage Service on this flight it is against DL policy, thanks though for bring it to light.. I'm sure Inflight Mgt will be quite interested in knowing this.... So actually ASA is doing it correctly...

http://www.delta.com/booking/flightD...&inflight=true

Robert Leach

New policy is that, but previously you got a beverage service. The policy changed a few months ago to the more restrictive, and ridiculously stingy, one.

MikeMpls

Thank you for helping to remind us about the better service we receive on Continental and Southwest.

Robert Leach

So management would be interested in knowing any time that a frontline team member delivered more than dictated/designed?

What kind of crap is that? "Oooohhhh, those flight attendants did more than they were instructed to do, so they need to get in trouble! After all, if they gave great service, the customers will begin to expect it on every short flight. And, just think, it cost us $19.50 in beverage costs, plus $2.25 in plastic cups and $1.95 in ice."

flightattendantsteve

ATL-VPS when I non-revved there several weeks ago was 37 minutes wheels up to wheels down... It's almost impossible to do a full beverage service on the short of flight. Once over 10K you have maybe 20 mins.. even on a RJ with 50 or 70 pax there isn't nearly enough time, let alone a MD80 with over 100.... The policy is put forth by Delta and you do not deviate from it.. Walk-Through/Request only... no full service.. and I'm sorry you feel its "stingy".... but FA's that deviate from policy and decide to make up their own rules make it hard for us that follow policy.. and causes the issues of the inconsistency of service that was mentioned at the earlier in this thread.

As far as the FA's that do this... well.. maybe they should re-read IFS policy and procedures. And realize that even by trying to provide "top notch" service they are actually adding to the problem.

MikeMpls

^^More power to them. Lets hope for lots of deviants.