Guess DL service = water only DTW-ORD
Apr 10, 2009, 5:36 pm
#16
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It's not true that they're not concerned. DOT recently started to require that the airlines report taxi times & tarmac delays. These are some very interesting new additions to the monthly DOT data.
Apr 10, 2009, 5:42 pm
#17
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I know MikeMpls is pretty well respected around these parts, so it's from that perspective that I question his response. I agree that the airline industry's inability to function like a real business is incredible while their list of excuses runs a mile long. But... it's a 40 minute flight. 40 minutes. Most of us have been on longer subway rides. While drink service etc. would be nice, is it really necessary? Should that be the definition of service? A lousy sippy cup of soda with ice in it? To be honest, it doesn't even really register on my radar, at least for a 40 minute flight. It strikes me as wasteful more than anything else. It's the same reaction I have to people who get out the travel pillow for the 3 hour flight from Minneapolis to LAX. It's 3 hours... do you pull out a neck pillow when you're at the movies or in traffic? Ditto for the lady who wanted pillows and blankets for the 2.5 hour flight from MIA to PTY. None were to be had on such a short flight, and she was visibly put off. Yes it would be nice on such short flights to have full service, however that's defined. But is that what we really want? Need? Are we willing to pay for it? If so, then why not bring a bottle of your own on board? Maybe I'm way off base, or just of a different generation... but I couldn't care less about a silly cup of soda on a 40 minute flight. You're flying from Detroit to O'hare in a jet, not crossing the western plains in a covered wagon.
[Putting on flame retardant suit...]
[Putting on flame retardant suit...]
Board 30 minutes early, spent 10 minutes to 3 hours in taxiout & tarmac delays before you're airborne, 40 minutes in the air, another 10+ minutes taxiing on the ground. Those 40 minutes in the air easily add up 1.5 hours or more on the plane. In my opinion, the service is mandatory.
But that's ok. These days we do most of our domestic flying on Southwest which (1) has flight attendants with better attitudes and (2) gets the job done. And they're usually cheaper.
Apr 10, 2009, 5:50 pm
#18
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Service parameters are SCHEDULED parameters. Those are set forth for when things go as scheduled. If things go haywire with weather, mechanical etc... there are provisions for that. Good lord people... can we take personal responsibility anymore? We can't regulate this industry to death by mandating drinks served on all flights. That's simply ridiculous and that's the last thing we need is for the government to regulate this nation even more!
One question... why do you fly?
One question... why do you fly?
Apr 10, 2009, 5:56 pm
#19
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I'm with you on the last two points, no sense in being a glutton for punishment (particularly some of the FAs on the legacies... yowza). If someone offers a better and cheaper product, go for it. My point is, I guess, I don't look at what airlines like Ryan Air, EasyJet, and even US Air are doing with such dread. Definitely goes to far in some respects (e.g. I don't want to fly a filthy plane, and would like the airline to take some responsibility for getting me home when there are problems... which the ultra LCCs often won't do). But peeling back what passed for "service" (peanuts and a sippy cup, even IFE) doesn't bother me in the least. Of course I expect to pay a lot less if that's going to be the case - and US carriers are still very expensive. But I certainly won't mourn a thing if flying becomes like taking the train - get me and my baggage from point A to B expeditiously, safely, and cheaply (and, perhaps, with a smile)... the rest adds very little value. $.02
Apr 10, 2009, 6:04 pm
#20
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Service parameters are SCHEDULED parameters. Those are set forth for when things go as scheduled. If things go haywire with weather, mechanical etc... there are provisions for that. Good lord people... can we take personal responsibility anymore? We can't regulate this industry to death by mandating drinks served on all flights. That's simply ridiculous and that's the last thing we need is for the government to regulate this nation even more!
One question... why do you fly?
One question... why do you fly?
In the case of the CHI-DTW market, which I believe was the route under discussion that started this thread, WN has also been the market leader for at least a couple years now as far as pricing is concerned. And I'll most WN flights between CHI & DTW include full service.
If DL/NW is to survive & prosper, its employees need to quit making excuses for & rationalizing lower levels of service and start matching or exceeding what your competition provides. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there.
Apr 10, 2009, 6:15 pm
#21
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Mike, with all due respect, and I am serious, not being sarcastic or insulting in any way. But if you have given all your business to Southwest, why do you even care about Delta anymore and continue to post about Delta?
I have given all my business to Delta and would never think about going on the WN forum to post there why I don't fly WN.
Again, my intention is not to be sarcastic. Just very curious.
I have given all my business to Delta and would never think about going on the WN forum to post there why I don't fly WN.
Again, my intention is not to be sarcastic. Just very curious.
Apr 10, 2009, 6:33 pm
#22
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Your mileage does vary. On my last five trips, WN was the cheapest on exactly 0% of the trips. On the other hand, the schedules were less convenient a full 100% of the time. I concede that WN is driving the lower prices on my routes, but the fact of the matter is that to label them as "usually cheaper" is (for me at least) simply not true.
Apr 10, 2009, 7:05 pm
#23
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Your mileage does vary. On my last five trips, WN was the cheapest on exactly 0% of the trips. On the other hand, the schedules were less convenient a full 100% of the time. I concede that WN is driving the lower prices on my routes, but the fact of the matter is that to label them as "usually cheaper" is (for me at least) simply not true.
Apr 10, 2009, 7:28 pm
#24
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40 minutes in the air isn't the whole picture.
Board 30 minutes early, spent 10 minutes to 3 hours in taxiout & tarmac delays before you're airborne, 40 minutes in the air, another 10+ minutes taxiing on the ground. Those 40 minutes in the air easily add up 1.5 hours or more on the plane. In my opinion, the service is mandatory.
But that's ok. These days we do most of our domestic flying on Southwest which (1) has flight attendants with better attitudes and (2) gets the job done. And they're usually cheaper.
Board 30 minutes early, spent 10 minutes to 3 hours in taxiout & tarmac delays before you're airborne, 40 minutes in the air, another 10+ minutes taxiing on the ground. Those 40 minutes in the air easily add up 1.5 hours or more on the plane. In my opinion, the service is mandatory.
But that's ok. These days we do most of our domestic flying on Southwest which (1) has flight attendants with better attitudes and (2) gets the job done. And they're usually cheaper.
Apr 10, 2009, 7:49 pm
#25
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Mike, with all due respect, and I am serious, not being sarcastic or insulting in any way. But if you have given all your business to Southwest, why do you even care about Delta anymore and continue to post about Delta?
I have given all my business to Delta and would never think about going on the WN forum to post there why I don't fly WN.
Again, my intention is not to be sarcastic. Just very curious.
I have given all my business to Delta and would never think about going on the WN forum to post there why I don't fly WN.
Again, my intention is not to be sarcastic. Just very curious.
Really, I've been tempted to ask the same question. No one is questioning your information or right to post. And I have learned from you. But, on occasion, it seems that there is some sort of agenda here.
Apr 10, 2009, 8:47 pm
#26
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Flew DTW-ORD this morning on a NW-operated D95. Same story in F... a cup of water before takeoff and that was it. Had trouble even getting an FA's attention, they seemed to be more interested in chatting it up.
Apr 10, 2009, 9:09 pm
#27
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Before you generalize and call NW flight attendant's "lazy," do you even know there are service changes going on between certain markets and full/limited beverages are no longer offered? 
Yes, we all know there are "lazy" flight attendants, but for some of you to assume flight attendants are being lazy for not offering a beverage service of any kind is totally unfair. 
Before you decide to call names, have all of your facts. DL has different expectations, some better and some worse when it comes to inflight service expectations and guidelines. Sometimes expected turbulence or shorter flight times than scheduled prevent flight attendants from offering service.
The other day I flew HNL-ATL and shocked to find what "Delta standard" is when it comes to getting extra cans of juice and soda. Extras were not provided like they had been previously on HNL to US mainland flights.
Yes, we all know there are "lazy" flight attendants, but for some of you to assume flight attendants are being lazy for not offering a beverage service of any kind is totally unfair. Before you decide to call names, have all of your facts. DL has different expectations, some better and some worse when it comes to inflight service expectations and guidelines. Sometimes expected turbulence or shorter flight times than scheduled prevent flight attendants from offering service. The other day I flew HNL-ATL and shocked to find what "Delta standard" is when it comes to getting extra cans of juice and soda. Extras were not provided like they had been previously on HNL to US mainland flights.
Apr 10, 2009, 9:28 pm
#28
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Since I do DTW-ORD/MDW quite a bit the past 3 years (usually to connect in ORD, driving from ARB to ORD is quicker) I've see a mix of service in mainline NW and UA on this short flight in F & Y. UA and NW FAs usually prepared a tray of drinks and passed thru the cabin a few times till everyone had their share of drinks. Unless the routing is strange due to weather this flight is really short and standard drinks is all they need. The regional express carriers (UX, XJ et al) are a different story. Many many times they just announced: 'no service today due to weather/short flight etc' and proceeded to read the magazine of their choice
Apr 10, 2009, 9:47 pm
#29
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Before you generalize and call NW flight attendant's "lazy," do you even know there are service changes going on between certain markets and full/limited beverages are no longer offered? Yes, we all know there are "lazy" flight attendants, but for some of you to assume flight attendants are being lazy for not offering a beverage service of any kind is totally unfair. Before you decide to call names, have all of your facts. DL has different expectations, some better and some worse when it comes to inflight service expectations and guidelines. Sometimes expected turbulence or shorter flight times than scheduled prevent flight attendants from offering service.
The other day I flew HNL-ATL and shocked to find what "Delta standard" is when it comes to getting extra cans of juice and soda. Extras were not provided like they had been previously on HNL to US mainland flights.
Yes, we all know there are "lazy" flight attendants, but for some of you to assume flight attendants are being lazy for not offering a beverage service of any kind is totally unfair. Before you decide to call names, have all of your facts. DL has different expectations, some better and some worse when it comes to inflight service expectations and guidelines. Sometimes expected turbulence or shorter flight times than scheduled prevent flight attendants from offering service. The other day I flew HNL-ATL and shocked to find what "Delta standard" is when it comes to getting extra cans of juice and soda. Extras were not provided like they had been previously on HNL to US mainland flights.
Remember, it's a competitive industry, and there IS competition out there. Whether a crew is lazy by choice or lazy by design is of no importance to me.
Apr 10, 2009, 10:57 pm
#30
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(No, I don't need your rundown of what Ma and Pa Kettle plus their six kids pay for checking bags on Southwest...)
The fact is, it's a waste of time and money to chase after passengers at that end of the spectrum. By definition, those passengers are fickle anyway and would just as easily choose one legacy over the other if it were a few dollars cheaper (or, as in this case, offers marginally better in-flight food & drink). Or they'll be wooed by a live TV service or a singing/rapping flight attendant. It's really hard (and costly) to compete for those customers. So airlines like Southwest will continue scoop them up and hop them all over the country through their various pseudo-hubs and hope that passengers won't demand more non-stop service, better IRROPs, international agreements (even interline baggage), a first class cabin, etc.