Delta Continues to Adjust to Unprecedented Fuel Costs with Addition of Fuel Surcharge
#91
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#92
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Before claiming whether or not there is "any basis for a lawsuit", a person ought to try to become familiar with how some terms and conditions are not necessarily enforceable in all jurisdictions, with the legal concepts of contra proferentem, and with judicial determinations regarding contracts of adhesion.
Do they really advertise it as "free"? By that, I mean, do they ever actually put out an ad that doesn't have the fine print of "taxes and fees may apply"?
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#94
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If you put a lobster in cold water, and then turn the heat on...
I'd bet that DL will increase these taxes (probably double them), within the next year. They've made these fees moderate so that many frequent flyers won't complain. Then, when they lose 45 gazillion dollars the next quarter, they'll have another reason to ask for more.
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
Do they really advertise it as "free"? By that, I mean, do they ever actually put out an ad that doesn't have the fine print of "taxes and fees may apply"?
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Northwest Airlines tried a similar stunt with me on the Bucharest deal way back when (trying to call a zero base fare ticket with a fuel surcharge 'free'), and even their legal department recognized the error of that interpretation, with the end result benig my flying on the date, route, and mileage-upgraded cabin of my choosing...
#98
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"Delta and its program partners reserve the right to change program rules, benefits, regulations, Travel Awards, fees, mileage Award levels, and special offers at any time without notice. "
Stinks, but there you have it.Are you certain that for tickets issued before August 15th that voluntary award ticket reissues -- including for reroutings -- won't necessarily trigger the fuel surcharge?
I would not be surprised if a Skymiles member-initiated award ticket change after August 15th for tickets issued prior to that date would also trigger the fuel surcharges on tickets already issued or issued prior to August 15th.
I would not be surprised if a Skymiles member-initiated award ticket change after August 15th for tickets issued prior to that date would also trigger the fuel surcharges on tickets already issued or issued prior to August 15th.
No one is more sick about this than me, but this is what we have to expect from SkyMiles from now on.
#99
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Delta is trying to have it both ways in the same press release, but there is a problem with that since these fees will also apply to already ticketed award travel when a change is made that involves a reissuing of the ticket.
When a firm advertises two contradictory items -- as DL has done above -- a court or administrative regulatory body may well determine that such a company is engaged in false advertising or other unlawful deceptive trade practices if it advertises one thing and then tries to contradict its advertisement in the structural equivalent of fine print, including such as the terms and conditions.
When a firm advertises two contradictory items -- as DL has done above -- a court or administrative regulatory body may well determine that such a company is engaged in false advertising or other unlawful deceptive trade practices if it advertises one thing and then tries to contradict its advertisement in the structural equivalent of fine print, including such as the terms and conditions.
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And so does any and every other change "apply" to miles earned previously. Under the Terms and Conditions, they can do that without notice.
"Delta and its program partners reserve the right to change program rules, benefits, regulations, Travel Awards, fees, mileage Award levels, and special offers at any time without notice. "
Stinks, but there you have it.
Originally Posted by cynicalflyer
Maybe, but that's not retroactivity, that's new activity in some respects.
Originally Posted by cynicalflyer
Plus, as I noted above, they can change anything, anytime, without evne notice, with respect to "program rules, benefits, regulations, Travel Awards, fees, mileage Award levels, and special offers".
Originally Posted by cyncialflyer
No one is more sick about this than me, but this is what we have to expect from SkyMiles from now on.
Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 27, 2008 at 10:19 am
#102
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This gets down to whether or not the reissue is a new activity or a modification of an old one. If new, post August 15, you are undeniably going to get hit. Delta's going to argue that reissuance of a ticket is a NEW issuance of an ticket based on an OLD confirmation/reservation and thus because it is NEW gets hit with the NEW rule.
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That language is to discourage those who are ignorant of the basic principles of contract law from thinking that they have rights that can be asserted against Delta. Conversely, those of us who can claim Contracts Law as our single best course in law school don't bat an eye in asserting that such language will prove unenforceable in many instances (without giving opinion or advice as to whether it's enforceable here).
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It seems like a few of you here have failed to eat your hat from the previous time around. I suggest looking at class action lawsuits and settlements from at least one airline that tried to hide behind terms and conditions but still ended up having to pay for their attempts to pull a fast one over consumers.
#105
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Did you already eat your hat? You fail to make reference to the class action lawsuit and settlements involving at least one US airline that showed how some terms and conditions are not necessarily enforceable in all jurisdictions and how the legal concepts of contra proferentem and judicial determinations regarding contracts of adhesion come into play -- as they have already at least once with a US airline.
Feel free to think that the courts are somehow going to save the FF game for you. I'll spend my time and energy adjusting my own behavior to maximize my benefits under any new scheme.