Why doesn't HIP apply here?
May 12, 2008, 4:25 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Itinerant
Programs: DL FO, AA PLT, BD *G
Posts: 402
Why doesn't HIP apply here?
So I'm flying BDA-ATL-CVG-DFW-ICN-TPE-NRT-ATL-RDU-BOS-BDA on a full-fare Y, fare basis YLE for BDA-ICN. ICN, TPE and NRT are all stopovers.
YLE is a MPM fare, and the return has a 20% charge for exceeding MPM. This turns out to be cheaper than BDA-TPE's YOE fare basis, which has a higher MPM.
Both BDA-TPE and BDA-NRT have higher full-fare Y fares. So why doesn't the HIP check come in and cause problems?
For reference, here's my fare calculation and the YLE rules (note the absence of any "Ignore HIP" language:
YLE is a MPM fare, and the return has a 20% charge for exceeding MPM. This turns out to be cheaper than BDA-TPE's YOE fare basis, which has a higher MPM.
Both BDA-TPE and BDA-NRT have higher full-fare Y fares. So why doesn't the HIP check come in and cause problems?
For reference, here's my fare calculation and the YLE rules (note the absence of any "Ignore HIP" language:
Code:
BDA DL CVG DL DFW DL SEL Q90.00 M909.00YLE OZ TPE DL TYO DL ATL Q90.00 DL RDU DL BOS DL BDA 20M1090.80YLE NUC2179.80END XT EN4.00 AY10.00 XA 10.00 XY14.00 BP27.70 TW9.90 SW19.50 XF4.50 BOS4.5
Code:
APPLICATION RULE
NORTH/CENTRAL PACIFIC EXCURSION FARES BETWEEN AREA 1 AND
AREA 3
APPLICATION
AREA
THESE FARES APPLY
BETWEEN AREA 1 AND AREA 3.
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION
FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE
ROUND-TRIP/CIRCLE-TRIP/SINGLE OPEN-JAW JOURNEYS.
THESE FARES SHALL APPLY ONLY WHEN TICKETS AT
SUCH FARES ARE PURCHASED PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT
OF TRAVEL.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
THE CARRIER SHALL LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PASSENGERS CARRIED
ON ANY ONE FLIGHT AT FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE AND SUCH
FARES WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE AVAILABLE ON ALL FLIGHTS.
THE NUMBER OF SEATS WHICH THE CARRIER SHALL MAKE
AVAILABLE ON A GIVEN FLIGHT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE
CARRIERS BEST JUDGMENT
ADVANCE RES/TKTG
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ARRIVAL AT THE FIRST
STOPOVER IN AREA 3.
OPEN RETURNS PERMITTED.
NOTE -
PAYMENT AND TICKETING FOR ALL SEGMENTS MUST OCCUR
PRIOR TO DEPARTURE FROM THE POINT OF ORIGIN.
MINIMUM STAY
RETURN TRAVEL FROM LAST INTERNATIONAL STOPOVER MUST
COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN 6 DAYS AFTER DEPARTURE OF THE
FIRST INTERNATIONAL SECTOR.
MAXIMUM STAY
RETURN TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER
THAN 12 MONTHS AFTER DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.
SEASONS
ORIGINATING BERMUDA -
PERMITTED 01JAN THROUGH 31MAY OR 08SEP THROUGH 30NOV ON
THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL SECTOR.
STOPOVERS
UNLIMITED STOPOVERS PERMITTED
LIMITED TO 3 FREE AND UNLIMITED AT USD 75.00 EACH.
CHILD DISCOUNTS APPLY.
CHILD DISCOUNT
GENERAL RULES TEXT
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA TRANSPACIFIC
SECTORS
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME COMPARTMENT
BY ADULT 18 OR OLDER
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 18 OR OLDER
OR - 1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10
PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS IN SAME
COMPARTMENT BY ADULT 18 OR OLDER.
NOTE -
WHEN SECTORS WITHIN/BETWEEN THE U.S.A./CANADA/
CARIBBEAN/MEXICO ARE INCLUDED IN AN INTERNATIONAL
JOURNEY TRAVEL OVER SUCH SECTORS WILL BE PERMITTED
FREE OF CHARGE.
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-7 - NO DISCOUNT.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN UNDER 5 YEARS OF AGE WILL
NOT BE ACCEPTED FOR CARRIAGE UNDER ANY CONDITIONS.
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN AGE 5 TO 7 WILL BE ACCEPTED
ONLY FOR ONLINE TRANSPORTATION WHEN THROUGH
SERVICE IS PROVIDED WITHOUT CHANGE OF AIRCRAFT AND
PROVIDED THAT THE FLIGHT IS NOT SCHEDULED TO STOP
IN A COUNTRY OTHER THAN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGINAL
DESTINATION.
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 8-11 - CHARGE 67 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
IF THE FARE COMPONENT INCLUDES TRAVEL VIA TRANSATLANTIC
SECTORS
ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT
OR - INFANT UNDER 2 WITH A SEAT - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF
THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT
OR - 1ST INFANT UNDER 2 WITHOUT A SEAT - CHARGE 10
PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 5-7 - NO DISCOUNT.
NOTE -
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN UNDER 5 YEARS OF AGE WILL
NOT BE ACCEPTED FOR CARRIAGE UNDER ANY CONDITIONS.
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN AGE 5 TO 7 WILL BE ACCEPTED
ONLY FOR ONLINE TRANSPORTATION WHEN THROUGH
SERVICE IS PROVIDED WITHOUT CHANGE OF AIRCRAFT AND
PROVIDED THAT THE FLIGHT IS NOT SCHEDULED TO STOP
IN A COUNTRY OTHER THAN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGINAL
DESTINATION.
OR - UNACCOMPANIED CHILD 8-11 - CHARGE 50 PERCENT OF THE
FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND PERCENT OF DISCOUNT.
SURCHARGES
ORIGINATING INTL. POINTS IN THE CARIBBEAN AREA -
A SURCHARGE OF USD 135.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE ADDED TO
THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR TRANSATLANTIC
SECTORS.
NOTE -
A SURCHARGE WILL BE ASSESSED FOR ANY FARE PAYING
PASSENGER EACH TIME TRAVEL INVOLVES AN ENPLANEMENT
ON A DL INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT.
THE SURCHARGE SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE APPLICABLE
CURRENCY FOR THE COUNTRY OF COMMENCEMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION AT THE APPLICABLE IATA ROE
THE SURCHARGE WILL NOT APPLY TO PASSENGERS
TRAVELING ON ANY DL FREE TICKET.
THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
AND - A SURCHARGE OF USD 90.00 PER DIRECTION WILL BE
ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE FOR TRAVEL FOR
TRANSPACIFIC SECTORS.
NOTE -
A SURCHARGE WILL BE ASSESSED FOR ANY FARE PAYING
PASSENGER EACH TIME TRAVEL INVOLVES AN ENPLANEMENT
ON A DL INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT.
THE SURCHARGE SHALL BE CONVERTED TO THE APPLICABLE
CURRENCY FOR THE COUNTRY OF COMMENCEMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION AT THE APPLICABLE IATA ROE
THE SURCHARGE WILL NOT APPLY TO PASSENGERS
TRAVELING ON ANY DL FREE TICKET.
THE SURCHARGE APPLIES IN ADDITION TO ALL OTHER
CHARGES AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY DISCOUNT.
TRANSFERS
4 TRANSFERS PERMITTED - 2 IN EACH DIRECTION
ONLINE EXCLUDING THE PUBLISHING CARRIER/INTERLINE
1 IN CONTIGUOUS U.S.A. IN EACH DIRECTION
1 OUTSIDE CONTIGUOUS U.S.A. IN EACH DIRECTION.
AND - UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED
ONLINE ON THE PUBLISHING CARRIER.
TOUR CONDUCTOR
NOTE -
DISCOUNTS APPLY
AGENTS DISCOUNTS
NOTE -
DISCOUNTS APPLY
PENALTIES
CANCELLATIONS
PER TICKET CHARGE USD 100.00/CAD 146.00 FOR LOST TICKET.
COMBINABILITY
DOUBLE OPEN JAWS NOT PERMITTED.
END-ON-END PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL FARE COMPONENTS.
TRAVEL MUST BE VIA POINT OF COMBINATION.
ADD-ONS PERMITTED.
OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS
FARES MAY BE COMBINED ON A HALF ROUND TRIP BASIS
-TO FORM SINGLE OPEN JAWS
-TO FORM ROUND TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE OF THE SAME FARE TYPE
FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRP - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA PAC
IPRSAAS - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 3 VIA PAC.
ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
-TO FORM CIRCLE TRIPS EXCEPT FOR AROUND-THE-WORLD FARES.
PROVIDED -
COMBINATIONS ARE WITH ANY FARE OF THE SAME FARE TYPE
FOR ANY CARRIER IN ANY RULE IN TARIFF
IPRP - BETWEEN THE USA/CANADA-AREA 2/3 VIA PAC
IPRSAAS - BETWEEN AREA 1-AREA 3 VIA PAC.
ROUTING MPM MPM TRVL PERMITTED
May 13, 2008, 5:59 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: skymiles
Posts: 221
The fare calc line above is not correct.There should a charge of 75.00 for over 3 stopovers and the HIP should be BOSTPE and not from BDA and you should also be charged a OW fare on OZ from TPE to NRT.
BDA DL ATL DL CVG DL DFW DL SEL Q90.00M909.00YLE OZ TPE328.52YOW DL TYO DL ATL Q83.00DL RDU DL BOS DL BDA M BOSTPE1810.00YOE4S300.00NUC3520.52END ROE1.00 XT XY 14.00 US 61.60 XA 10.00 AY 10.00 BL 4.25 BM 35.00 EN 4.00 BP 27.72 TW 9.85 SW 19.46 XF 18.00 ATL4.5CVG4.5RDU4.5BOS4.5
BDA DL ATL DL CVG DL DFW DL SEL Q90.00M909.00YLE OZ TPE328.52YOW DL TYO DL ATL Q83.00DL RDU DL BOS DL BDA M BOSTPE1810.00YOE4S300.00NUC3520.52END ROE1.00 XT XY 14.00 US 61.60 XA 10.00 AY 10.00 BL 4.25 BM 35.00 EN 4.00 BP 27.72 TW 9.85 SW 19.46 XF 18.00 ATL4.5CVG4.5RDU4.5BOS4.5
May 13, 2008, 8:24 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego
Programs: Delta DM, Starwood Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 66
And I thought my job had a lot of jargon!
I think I am SOL (and most un-HIP) when it comes to understanding whatever was just described...
May 13, 2008, 8:34 pm
#4
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: skymiles
Posts: 221
A HIP stands for (higher intermediate point).Let's say you travel from city A via B via C to city D and you are stopping over and not connecting and the fare from city A to D is 1000.00 but the fare from city A to C is 1200.00 you will be charged the higher amount
Last edited by dlinsider; May 13, 2008 at 8:37 pm Reason: correction
May 15, 2008, 6:37 pm
#5
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego
Programs: Delta DM, Starwood Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 66
Always a good day when you learn something new.
May 16, 2008, 8:23 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Itinerant
Programs: DL FO, AA PLT, BD *G
Posts: 402
The fare calc line above is not correct.There should a charge of 75.00 for over 3 stopovers and the HIP should be BOSTPE and not from BDA and you should also be charged a OW fare on OZ from TPE to NRT.
BDA DL ATL DL CVG DL DFW DL SEL Q90.00M909.00YLE OZ TPE328.52YOW DL TYO DL ATL Q83.00DL RDU DL BOS DL BDA M BOSTPE1810.00YOE4S300.00NUC3520.52END ROE1.00 XT XY 14.00 US 61.60 XA 10.00 AY 10.00 BL 4.25 BM 35.00 EN 4.00 BP 27.72 TW 9.85 SW 19.46 XF 18.00 ATL4.5CVG4.5RDU4.5BOS4.5
BDA DL ATL DL CVG DL DFW DL SEL Q90.00M909.00YLE OZ TPE328.52YOW DL TYO DL ATL Q83.00DL RDU DL BOS DL BDA M BOSTPE1810.00YOE4S300.00NUC3520.52END ROE1.00 XT XY 14.00 US 61.60 XA 10.00 AY 10.00 BL 4.25 BM 35.00 EN 4.00 BP 27.72 TW 9.85 SW 19.46 XF 18.00 ATL4.5CVG4.5RDU4.5BOS4.5
I do agree with you that there should be a HIP though--BDATPE, BDANRT, and some CVG pairs are all higher in Y.
The fare calc may not appear to be correct in theory, but it was autopriced this way at a CTO and over the phone, and repriced a bunch of times due to changes and it didn't come up higher, so for some reason it must be right.
Still a very interesting situation, although I'm very happy HIP isn't happening!
May 17, 2008, 10:46 am
#7
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 478
BOS is just a transfer so it won't cause the HIP nor the excess stopover charge. Stopovers are CVG, ICN and NRT; TPE is a fare break.
I do agree with you that there should be a HIP though--BDATPE, BDANRT, and some CVG pairs are all higher in Y.
The fare calc may not appear to be correct in theory, but it was autopriced this way at a CTO and over the phone, and repriced a bunch of times due to changes and it didn't come up higher, so for some reason it must be right.
Still a very interesting situation, although I'm very happy HIP isn't happening!
I do agree with you that there should be a HIP though--BDATPE, BDANRT, and some CVG pairs are all higher in Y.
The fare calc may not appear to be correct in theory, but it was autopriced this way at a CTO and over the phone, and repriced a bunch of times due to changes and it didn't come up higher, so for some reason it must be right.
Still a very interesting situation, although I'm very happy HIP isn't happening!
BDASEL 3719
BDATYO 3432
Since TPE is a connection, no HIP check is required, and I believe you don't have to do a HIP check on domestic US cities (correct me if I'm wrong).
Therefore --
BDA DL X/ATL DL CVG DL X/DFW DL SEL Q90.00M909.00YLE OZ X/TPE
DL TYO DL X/ATL Q90.00 DL X/RDU DL X/BOS DL BDA 20M1090.80YLE
NUC2179.80END ROE1.0 ZP ATLCVG FARE USD 2180.00 TAX 10.00AY TAX 40.49US TAX 10.00XA TAX 18.00XF TAX 14.00XY TAX 4.25BL TAX 35.00BM TAX 4.00EN TAX 26.88BP TAX 19.63SW TAX 7.00ZP TAX 25.00YQ TOT USD 2394.25
(I may have fudged here a little bit by booking TPENRT with a DL flight number rather than the operating CI flight number)