Upgrading Non-revs At Atl Over Platinum
Apr 21, 2008, 11:15 pm
#61
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SLC
Programs: DL PM,1MM
Posts: 690
Just out of curiousity did you board in your coach seat and not wait for the upgrade? I know it's already been said but your name is removed once boarded. If you didn't board and waited then non-revs got the seats then that is absoloutely wrong. I am very surprised a GA would purposely do this with the intention of "screwing over" an elite pax. We are monitored and personally it's not worth me getting in trouble. Sorry you've had so much trouble lately.
Apr 22, 2008, 1:33 am
#62
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SLC & NYC
Programs: Diamond Medallion, Delta Million Miler, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 674
Honestly... and I say this with all my heart ... get bent ...
I have a wife who is a GA who is moving over to the operations side of the house for this exact reason. She got written up twice in her last 3 work days because people complained that she wouldnt move their seats because it meant bumping a Medallion around. This is two days after her annual review where she was considered one of the top agents.
I'm getting sick and tired of all the abuse that people are giving the GAs when in reality their hands are so tied right now that they arent allowed to make many of their own decision.
I have a wife who is a GA who is moving over to the operations side of the house for this exact reason. She got written up twice in her last 3 work days because people complained that she wouldnt move their seats because it meant bumping a Medallion around. This is two days after her annual review where she was considered one of the top agents.
I'm getting sick and tired of all the abuse that people are giving the GAs when in reality their hands are so tied right now that they arent allowed to make many of their own decision.
I realize that dealing with rude people all day (I'm sure GAs see some of the worst of it) can really take a toll on you. Maybe GA's should be rotated out to other parts of the company regularly or something. But something needs to be done because it's not just one person experience exceptionally poor service from GA's. It's a lot of people.
and oh btw, the OP stated several times. it wasn't the GA that did it.
Apr 22, 2008, 5:32 am
#63
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,426
Managing Upgrade Passengers
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March 24, 2008
All frontline personnel working gates need to adhere to the current Upgrade Policy outlined in the Passenger Service Manual (PSM) titled Gates Section 5.5.1 that states:
Managing Upgrade Passengers
Follow these steps when your flight has Upgrade passengers on the Standby list:
Make an announcement in the gate area immediately before boarding commences advising Upgrade passengers not to board until informed either by GIDS or an agent that they no longer have a chance to obtain an upgrade. Example:
"Ladies and Gentlemen. If you awaiting an upgrade today, we ask that you remain in the gate area until advised if the upgrade will be available or not. You can also monitor your status on the "upgrade" screen of the monitors posted in the gate area. Please understand that we cannot upgrade passengers once they have boarded in coach. Thank you."
Give passengers the opportunity to board as early as possible when their chance to upgrade becomes unavailable.
While the flight is boarding, constantly monitor the Upgrade list and Seat Summary. Keep Upgrade list passengers informed via announcements if they should board or not. A passenger on the Upgrade list must remain in the gate area in order to be eligible for the upgrade.
Do not upgrade passengers after they have boarded the aircraft to take their confirmed coach seat.
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Apr 22, 2008, 5:44 am
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: BOCA RATON,FL--FLL OR PBI
Programs: DELTA PM, CO Platinum, PLAT AMEX
Posts: 312
So I guess from that last post that the passengers that were sitting in coach who got upgraded on my flight was against policy, they were already in their seats, but I guess being a non-rev, your immune to those rules sometimes.
I gather from that policy, that they should have kept the seats open. Going out empty again, like other OPS have said they have seen before. Maybe DL should reconsider this policy for 3 min window after the door closes, but I can see it holding up the plane when GA-s or FA-s need to determine who is getting the empty seats. Just in case program could be added to their current upgrade system, for those last minute changes.
My question now is, what policy in DL does say about Lead FA-s upgrading people, when the boarding door closes? Regardless if they are NON_REV or Elite or even just the normal flying public on a LUT fare.
I gather from that policy, that they should have kept the seats open. Going out empty again, like other OPS have said they have seen before. Maybe DL should reconsider this policy for 3 min window after the door closes, but I can see it holding up the plane when GA-s or FA-s need to determine who is getting the empty seats. Just in case program could be added to their current upgrade system, for those last minute changes.
My question now is, what policy in DL does say about Lead FA-s upgrading people, when the boarding door closes? Regardless if they are NON_REV or Elite or even just the normal flying public on a LUT fare.
Apr 22, 2008, 5:52 am
#65
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ATL
Programs: DL SkyMiles, MR, HH, ICH/PC, Avis Pref., Hertz Gold
Posts: 2,897
The thing that frustrates me, to a slight degree, is there is no way to know if there will be no-shows. We can see stats for how many seats are booked, how many seats are checked-in, etc., but to my knowledge there is no stat for "likely no-shows" or "predicted misconnects." ...
...The question I would ask is: at what point does a no-show lose his/her seat? If the gate agent was facing a crowd of 30 standbys (say, in irregular ops), at what point would someone with a confirmed seat who is checked in have to have the BP scanned and board before that seat is lost and given to one of the standbys?
...The question I would ask is: at what point does a no-show lose his/her seat? If the gate agent was facing a crowd of 30 standbys (say, in irregular ops), at what point would someone with a confirmed seat who is checked in have to have the BP scanned and board before that seat is lost and given to one of the standbys?
There are plenty of stories here in FT where late-connecting PAX ran like crazy to their next gate with only a minute to spare only to find their connecting flight had been closed.
Even thogugh the OP's flight segment was origininating in ATL, it could have been originating no-shows that opened up those F seates.
Apr 22, 2008, 6:39 am
#66
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: BOCA RATON,FL--FLL OR PBI
Programs: DELTA PM, CO Platinum, PLAT AMEX
Posts: 312
That is what I figured, with online check-in, delayed flights, etc. I have missed plenty of flights when Im already been upgraded, but I always call and let them know I cant make it so that someone else can get my seat.
Apr 22, 2008, 6:45 am
#67
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: BOCA RATON,FL--FLL OR PBI
Programs: DELTA PM, CO Platinum, PLAT AMEX
Posts: 312
While I'm sure you wife is a very nice person, the fact is that in my experience, a good percentage of gate agents have pretty rotten attitudes. I'd put them maybe one step above the dragons manning the lounge.
I realize that dealing with rude people all day (I'm sure GAs see some of the worst of it) can really take a toll on you. Maybe GA's should be rotated out to other parts of the company regularly or something. But something needs to be done because it's not just one person experience exceptionally poor service from GA's. It's a lot of people.
and oh btw, the OP stated several times. it wasn't the GA that did it.
I realize that dealing with rude people all day (I'm sure GAs see some of the worst of it) can really take a toll on you. Maybe GA's should be rotated out to other parts of the company regularly or something. But something needs to be done because it's not just one person experience exceptionally poor service from GA's. It's a lot of people.
and oh btw, the OP stated several times. it wasn't the GA that did it.
Oh and I had a beer in my hand, but it was my first one, since it was 900pm at night, and I dont like drinking to much on the plane due to dehydration.
Apr 22, 2008, 7:46 am
#68
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Augusta, GA, USA
Programs: DL FC, NW
Posts: 3,522
The dragons in the lounge, that made me laugh so hard this morning. The more I think about it, I agree lol. One of the dragons made a comment about my eyes being red one evening, saying I might not get on the flight because I looked intoxicated, however, I explained to her that I have PTERYGIUMs, that are bad, and when I surf or swim, they get really red for a week at a time. Visine just doesnt cut it anymore,
Oh and I had a beer in my hand, but it was my first one, since it was 900pm at night, and I dont like drinking to much on the plane due to dehydration.
Oh and I had a beer in my hand, but it was my first one, since it was 900pm at night, and I dont like drinking to much on the plane due to dehydration.
Try REFRESH eye drops - much better than Visine and they don't burn. I use them a lot during pollen season. Get them at Target and/or Walgreens.
Apr 22, 2008, 8:34 am
#69
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: ex-AA EXP, DL GM, ex-1k SPG Plat
Posts: 109
Apr 22, 2008, 11:27 am
#70
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hawaii
Programs: Delta Platinum, Marriott Silver, Hilton Silver, Avis First
Posts: 394
Were you in BE or stuck in coach?
If you were in coach, did you buy an M-fare and attempt to use a PMU? If so, I agree it is ridiculous that DL flies around with empty seats in BE when PMs are willing to pay for a higher fare class and surrender a PMU. Why bother to attain/maintain PM status?
However, if you were flying on the lowest fare and/or not interested in using a PMU, then I agree that DL should not just give away the upgrades simply because the seats are open. Delta does need to a make a profit, and protecting the pricing integrity of BE seats is an important element of any profitable DL business model.
If you were in coach, did you buy an M-fare and attempt to use a PMU? If so, I agree it is ridiculous that DL flies around with empty seats in BE when PMs are willing to pay for a higher fare class and surrender a PMU. Why bother to attain/maintain PM status?
However, if you were flying on the lowest fare and/or not interested in using a PMU, then I agree that DL should not just give away the upgrades simply because the seats are open. Delta does need to a make a profit, and protecting the pricing integrity of BE seats is an important element of any profitable DL business model.
Because there was no guarantee (Z bucket was at 0) of getting an upgrade there was no way I was paying for an M fare when I could sit in the same seat and pay for a T fare.
Apr 22, 2008, 11:32 am
#71
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hawaii
Programs: Delta Platinum, Marriott Silver, Hilton Silver, Avis First
Posts: 394
You are joking, right? I cannot tell you how many non-revs I have sat next to in FC. I sat next to one last Wednesday from ATL to DCA (FYI: this was the last flight I took). The flight was full and many people on the waitlist. As a matter of fact, I was a last second upgrade even though the non-rev had a FC already.
Apr 22, 2008, 11:39 am
#72
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,906
You are joking, right? I cannot tell you how many non-revs I have sat next to in FC. I sat next to one last Wednesday from ATL to DCA (FYI: this was the last flight I took). The flight was full and many people on the waitlist. As a matter of fact, I was a last second upgrade even though the non-rev had a FC already.
Non-revs sitting in FC is not that rare... in fact, on almost any flight where domestic upgrades or international non-BE upgrades are available for sale at the gate, there will be non-revs that fill the seats when nobody buys the upgrade.
And BE is a whole 'nuther story... there are often many non-revs sitting in BE seats... remember, technically not a true upgrade as they were standby for the flight in the first place... cleared directly off the standby list into the front cabin... never had a coach seat, hence not an upgrade.
Apr 22, 2008, 1:38 pm
#73
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC
Programs: ex-AA EXP, DL GM, ex-1k SPG Plat
Posts: 109
Interesting how Non-rev clear to BE hmmmmm.
Good to know. Lately when I've been in FC I've seen more then a few non-revs and on my latest from LAX there was an FA from Air France sitting next to me in FC
Good to know. Lately when I've been in FC I've seen more then a few non-revs and on my latest from LAX there was an FA from Air France sitting next to me in FC
Non-revs sitting in FC is not that rare... in fact,
on almost any flight where domestic upgrades or international non-BE upgrades are available for sale at the gate, there will be non-revs that fill the seats when nobody buys the upgrade.
And BE is a whole 'nuther story... there are often many non-revs sitting in BE seats... remember, technically not a true upgrade as they were standby for the flight in the first place... cleared directly off the standby list into the front cabin... never had a coach seat, hence not an upgrade.
on almost any flight where domestic upgrades or international non-BE upgrades are available for sale at the gate, there will be non-revs that fill the seats when nobody buys the upgrade.
And BE is a whole 'nuther story... there are often many non-revs sitting in BE seats... remember, technically not a true upgrade as they were standby for the flight in the first place... cleared directly off the standby list into the front cabin... never had a coach seat, hence not an upgrade.
Apr 22, 2008, 2:04 pm
#74
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 4,003
True, but that information is something that the GIDS doesn't display and the customer doesn't know, unless the gate agent who, by policy quoted above, is "constantly" monitoring the situation, elects to share it with the upgrade-eligible customer. Moreover, what the system cannot predict is who checked-in at home online and then got caught in traffic or security delays and failed to show up. So, in 2008 what we're really saying is that "checked-in" on the GIDS doesn't mean a whole lot anymore (e.g., out of 24 checked in passengers, you could have 2-4 misconnects and 8 people who checked in online the day before and never got to the airport).
It would be nice for the gate agent to tell those potentially impacted not to board if there is a chance that misconnects will occur and free up seats in the F cabin, as opposed to the routine answer of "first has checked-in full." This is particularly needed since now the official policy is that the gate agent cannot come on board and rescue a passenger from coach when the misconnect occurs.
It would also be nice to know how many of those checked in did so 24 hours prior online, versus how many of those checked in were physically present at the airport when check-in occurred.
I mean, I think that 90% of us can deal with information if we have it. I prefer to never have to interact with a gate agent, because I realize they are busy. The info on the GIDS has been very beneficial in cutting down this need to interact, but if securing the upgrade that becomes available when a misconnect occurs (or an online check-in passenger gets delayed) requires camping out beside the podium, then I guess that's what Delta wants us all to do.
Since the gate agent has to walk down the jetway to deliver the "final paperwork" to the crew, for the life of me I don't understand why the gate agent, at that time, could not advise the flight attendant as to who should be moved up from coach to fill the empty F seats created by checked-in noshows.
It would be nice for the gate agent to tell those potentially impacted not to board if there is a chance that misconnects will occur and free up seats in the F cabin, as opposed to the routine answer of "first has checked-in full." This is particularly needed since now the official policy is that the gate agent cannot come on board and rescue a passenger from coach when the misconnect occurs.
It would also be nice to know how many of those checked in did so 24 hours prior online, versus how many of those checked in were physically present at the airport when check-in occurred.
I mean, I think that 90% of us can deal with information if we have it. I prefer to never have to interact with a gate agent, because I realize they are busy. The info on the GIDS has been very beneficial in cutting down this need to interact, but if securing the upgrade that becomes available when a misconnect occurs (or an online check-in passenger gets delayed) requires camping out beside the podium, then I guess that's what Delta wants us all to do.
Since the gate agent has to walk down the jetway to deliver the "final paperwork" to the crew, for the life of me I don't understand why the gate agent, at that time, could not advise the flight attendant as to who should be moved up from coach to fill the empty F seats created by checked-in noshows.
Apr 22, 2008, 2:14 pm
#75
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,859
I mean, I think that 90% of us can deal with information if we have it. I prefer to never have to interact with a gate agent, because I realize they are busy. The info on the GIDS has been very beneficial in cutting down this need to interact, but if securing the upgrade that becomes available when a misconnect occurs (or an online check-in passenger gets delayed) requires camping out beside the podium, then I guess that's what Delta wants us all to do.
Since the gate agent has to walk down the jetway to deliver the "final paperwork" to the crew, for the life of me I don't understand why the gate agent, at that time, could not advise the flight attendant as to who should be moved up from coach to fill the empty F seats created by checked-in noshows.
Since the gate agent has to walk down the jetway to deliver the "final paperwork" to the crew, for the life of me I don't understand why the gate agent, at that time, could not advise the flight attendant as to who should be moved up from coach to fill the empty F seats created by checked-in noshows.
David