lls138

And if valuing the Skymile at $0.01 with PwM, then how come we cannot purchase skymiles at that same rate?

stevenryals

that's actually a very good point...

ClipperDelta

That's the conventional wisdom that most people here would like to believe ("I fly a lot with this airline, hence when I complain and threaten to take my business away, I will be waited on hand and foot") - however, not ALL frequent flyers are created equal. There are many who are simply not profitable for an airline. Only Delta (and other airlines) have real data on their customers and frequent flyer behavior that indicate how profitable some FFers are....all we can do here is use the same platitudes and conventional wisdom over and over again, without really knowing how true it really is.

I know it makes people feel good to huff-and-puff on here about how the airline is going to die because they are threatening to take their business elsewhere. But there is hardly ANY empirical evidence to indicate that any of these goodies by themselves (whether it's the FFer loyalty or AVOD PTVs or complimentary meals, etc.) really have that much of an effect ultimately on the bottom line. Perhaps if ALL aspects were bad, they would eventually have an impact but an airline such as Delta (and most other airlines) have both good and not-so-good points about their full array of services and products. Combine that with the very different priorities of many people, and the effect of some "I'm leaving!" FFers is really not that significant. For every SkyMiler who leaves because of the FF program, there will usually be someone else (or even multiple people) to take his/her place because of various other factors (e.g., someone moving to Atlanta, someone needing to travel regularly to Africa, somebody who prefers DL's domestic complimentary upgrade system, or someone who likes DL's front-line staff, or someone who likes DL's inflight product, etc.)

Of course on FT, where the focus IS on loyalty programs, you get a louder voice that says the airline is going to hell because of its 'alienation of FFers". However, we often times forget that FT is but a small (maybe even very small) sampling of not just travellers, but Frequent Flyers. There are many, many Frequent Flyers or High Revenue passengers who really pay scant attention to these programs. In fact, in most surveys over many years about decision factors in choosing an airline, FF program has virtually never ranked even in the Top 3. As long as airlines continue to perform well across multiple but not necessarily ALL these factors, they won't necessarily experience a seismic negative shift that 'alienated' FFers hope for.

Beckles

That's not how fare buckets and available fares work. You could have a flight with availability wide open down to the T bucket, but only YBM fares available for purchase. As an example, if you look at CLT-ATL class availability for tomorrow, there is availability all the way down to T on the first four flights, but there is nothing available for purchase below H because there are no Q, K, L, U, or T fares that are cheaper with rules that allow for one-way travel tomorrow. In this same case however, if SkySaver's are tied to a fare bucket, say the very lowest one, they would still be available.

sxf24

DL's post-BK plan was at about $90 a barrel, the highest assumption of any carrier. Very few in any industry believed oil prices would spike so quickly.

As to alienating frequent fliers, some business is not worth keeping. DL's load and yields have shown very strong improvement in recent months, so they're obviously doing something right. Perhaps the customers that have left were dead weight and were replaced by higher value business.

With the significant increase in mileage earning opportunities, it was only a matter of time before redemption options were inflated as well...

sxf24

Because SkyMiles are a profit center.

lls138

Correct that. They are a product, not just profit. Like the widget. If buyers of the product don't feel that they are getting a good value, then they (Skymiles members or companies who buy SM for customer loyalty) will stop buying and profits will drop.

DLfan

I don't want to read too much into your post, Andy; but are you suggesting that rather than attempt to stay in business and keep thousands employed, Delta should consider going out of business as a realistic option to offering all the freebies to which you and I think we are entitled? Please elaborate your position on this as I just don't understand your logic.

spgaston

And what if they are not tied to fare bucket per se, but to what fare is available for revenue sale?

spgaston

If consolidation doesn't happen, then someone is going to go out of business. Most of us hope it's not DL, but it's hard to hold a torch for your airline of choice when you feel like you are not being treated fairly.

I understand wanting to defend DL if you feel like you aren't going to be affected by any of the changes, but let's be honest. DL has been anything but forthright regarding the changes and giving notice etc. A perfect example is how the new baggage charge is being implemented on pax who have already purchased tix before May01 AND those whose outbound begins before the change but return is after the change. They have not made any general public announcement about this yet, and who knows if they will. Of course it doesn't affect me but I still believe that the implementation is unethical and downright low and dirty. It doesn't affect me but it makes me think twice about giving them my business.

OrlandoFlyer

Jeff, if you really want to do something to help us all, it would be to get the DL website group to fix the award search and booking function on DL.com so that it operates correctly. I just tried to search for a MCO/SNN award flight and now the continue button on the calendar availabity page is missing after you select a date to search. So I can go no further!

There are numerous complaints throughout the DL FT forum about DL.com problems and they just seem ongoing. Maybe we should start a sticky with the problems.

upgrader

I have to along with ClipperDelta on his/her views. Only thing I would change is that FTers may be a tiny or very tiny concern of DL rather than a "small" concern. Fact is, the vast majority of those who fly DL have no knowledge whatsoever of the concerns, intracacies and interests of FT. DL is trying to match up with this vast majority, not us. We may think that because we travel more and more intelligently (Hard to deny. ) we are those about whom Delta should be concerned but IMHO the reality is that we are little more than the "lunatic fringe" to them. (I'm sure that phrase will resonate without upset with our contemplative FT stalwarts, aren't you?) DL must, and I believe, from an economic standpoint, should be concerned with how they can keep or add to those who will fly them not having done extensive research on the cheapest or best way to fly them because that audience is probably 75% or more of those who actually do or potentially will fly them. I believe they know they can't undercut other airlines and make a profit on many of the non-hub direct routes that now exist (e.g., those from my base of MCO) so they are just going to give them up and cut their losses on those routes. Makes sense to me. They are improving their international product (No rolling of eyes or guffawing, please) and trying to build a bigger client base there. That's where I use almost all of my Skymiles to fly business and I, for one, am reasonably pleased with what DL has to offer in the way of nonstop routes to Europe and that is principally what I use. Their service to Europe has steadily increased and improved over the last couple of years and so they will keep me as a customer. I almost could care less about domestic USA flights because there is so little difference on any airline these days and to me it is basically a case of grin and bear it on any carrier. To me, DL is making reasonable moves (although DL or any other airline may not be able to save themselves due to fuel cost increases unless there is a massive merging of airlines for which all of us will suffer in the bottom line price and which will make today's prices seem like the good old days) given the circumstances. I'm just hoping to survive and to use up all my FF miles on all my airlines before their value becomes the equivalent of Confederate dollars. After which time I will be so travel weary and satiated that I will have no desire to get to any place to which I can not walk, drive (in my golf cart, of course) or be driven to by my grandchildren.

iCorpRoadie

So true, there are many many many FF'ers that get on a plane and while on the plane are drafting the letter to someone in DL to complain about something so that they can get more miles. I assume that most of these people are on sLUT fare's and they are just looking for something to go wrong and will find it, be it a few mins late to . . . .

DLfan

No defense of Delta intended in my post. I'm simply seeking clarification of AndyTLE's post. If s/he did, in fact, mean that Delta should consider going out business (and thereby putting thousands of folks on the street) as a realistic alternative to providing the freebies we frequent flyers demand; then I will take exception to that suggestion. First, however, I want to make sure that is what was meant by the post.

spgaston

I think both upgrader and ClipperDelta may be underestimating the power of the internet and FlyerTalk in general as the primary sounding board for consumer issues with the airlines. Just google "Delta Skysaver Redemption" and see what your first hit is. Sure, there are some who don't care about anything or don't use the internet, but FT is on the cutting edge of these issues. If the airlines only look at the numbers then perhaps that is one of the reasons why they are struggling in the way that they are.