knkjens

Is there any priority within the PLAT/GOLD/FO groups. For example, does a PLAT B have a higher priority than a PLAT LTU fare??

DeltaFlyingProf

I'll add my voice to the choir. I am going to move away from DL because of the PMU unusability issue. Last year, I have travelled 200k miles, most of which have been on J and F paid tickets. I do buy such tickets for various reasons. But then after doing all that, if I still have to pay 2,000$ for my leisure ticket to Europe to be able to use a PMU, I find it frankly insulting.

Jeff, I do not want complimentary upgrades. I want to be able to use my PMUs or even my miles on a reasonable fare, not on a fare that looks like a discounted-J price.

jimrpa

A question - if you fly over 200K miles/year, you obviously don't need the miles for qualification, so why not just redeem your miles for your leisure trip to Europe, rather than buy a ticket and upgrade? I'd much rather spend $800 (or $2000 in Delta's case) on a nice hotel, or a more extensive vacation than on a plane ticket.

DeltaFlyingProf

I want to emphasize again that I do not want complimentary upgrades, so even though what you say may be true if they were truly complimentary, I want to make a few comments if you only consider making PMUs usable on any fare:

As you say, companies relax rules. The companies are the ones that pay for most of these ticket. If my company pays for my tickets (it does for some), I would be a fool to use my miles or PMUs for my company travels. I want to use them for my leisure travel or give them to my parents for their leisure travel. (As they are getting old and cannot afford M fares on their retirement income it would be a great plus if like for UA or AA I could give them the PMUs and they could use them on any fare. That reason alone would be a good one for me to stay with DL).
It really means that you will not lose much revenue, except the occasional I fare that someone would have bought instead of using a PMU. You also have a control on the number of upgrades (6 PMUs only for most PMs), so you have an upper cap to the number of upgrades that will happen anyhow.

When my work pays for my tickets, I can chose which airline I want to fly, as long as the fare is comparable to other airlines. When I decide to leave DL and go to UA or AA (or maybe NW with their new SWU offer) because the PMUs are useless, you have not gained added revenue by making their use so tight, you have lost a customer who had been faithful to you for 17 years and stuck with DL through good and bad times.

My two cents.

vasantn

I completely agree with Spiff, outtolunch and DeltaFlyingProf. The inability to make meaningful use of the PMUs is a real big deal to me.

Gargoyle

Same here. I put my focus last year on hitting top tier on AZ and as a result only hit GM for '07 on DL. If I could use PMU's on LUT fares TATL that would not have been the case- I would have booked my flights on delta.com and not alitalia.com. (I've already booked 4 R/T TATL flights this year from AZ instead of from DL; if I could have used PMU's, all four would have been booked through DL).

Even if the PMU's weren't valid on LUT, if they were at least valid on KQH, and if those fares weren't three to four times as much as LUT we would have a real shot of using them.

TJtv

What if PMU's were only given to people who achieved some threshold(say 50k or 75k) of paid business class or above travel? But then they were usable on any fare? This would assure that Delta would get the revenue for the the premium cabin tickets purchased by corporate accounts, and give a nice little benefit to that person for their leisure travel. To me it seems crazy(from delta's perspective) to throw around PMU's that are truly usuable(something like a UA SWU) to people who fly 75k miles in paid economy. Delta needs to reward their loyal PROFITABLE customers, not the ones who are just filling up the cheap seats.

Canarsie

...and for those of us who are Gold and Silver Medallion members — I have been a Gold Medallion Delta Air Lines SkyMiles member for at least 12 consecutive years — the old systemwide upgrade certificates that we earned years ago were a great incentive.

It gave the Delta Air Lines Medallion member an occasional opportunity to upgrade on a paid international trip as well as a domestic trip.

Is there any possibility of considering a return of those systemwide upgrade certificates?

zedthedeadpoet

Here here. If there is any ONE thing that I would like changed/improved it would be easier use of PMUs. Even if you reduce the total number allocated to just one round trip a year it would be better than the current situation.

Spiff

I would still give my high dollar business to other carriers.

Delta (or anyone who wants the bulk of my business) needs to recognize that I fly a mix of fares and I expect to be rewarded for my loyalty and my money, not just my money. Otherwise, what's my incentive to be loyal in the first place? I'd just pick the most convenient carrier, or the one who was willing to offer the best bribe at the moment.

GUWonder

Thanks for all the useful info and being a more open member of this community.

About the above item, I'd just say that it's a far better experience to be able to redeem an award -- knowing well the risks of a convoluted itinerary -- at the "SkySaver" level (i.e., the marketed standard award level) using a convoluted itinerary than having to pony up more miles for a more direct experience (if a direct routing is even available at all at the "saver" level). In our situations: it's been we who have been requesting the convoluted itineraries when DL CSR searches couldn't find any long-haul coach "saver"-type award space while our retained party could find it through convoluted routings on the very same dates.

As the DL CSRs have almost never suggested to us convoluted itineraries for when long-haul coach "saver"-type award space was unavailable through standard DL macro searches, I'd say that having DL reps relying upon the search tool unless a customer has a suggestion that works on the very same dates would solve much of the above issue you mentioned.

That is, the "enforcement" of the pre-existing rules doesn't unambiguously benefit those customers who then were the ones suggesting the convoluted itineraries to DL CSRs in order to get a chance to use their miles in the same way (at the same price level) they would if a more direct routing was available. [This "enforcement" far less ambiguously benefits those DL customers who were being suggested by DL CSRs to endure a convoluted itinerary.] Perhaps an "on approval" (for no additional miles) process when the customer requests the convoluted itinerary would solve the issue of DL CSRs going above and beyond with the typical customer (who was not requesting a convoluted itinerary).

One up-side of this "enforcement" matter is that there's less utility in having a retained party do award searches to supplement the DL CSRs' searches for award space (at the "saver"/standard price level). The downside is that it means less opportunity to redeem miles on intercontinental flights at the "saver"/standard award levels.

The remaining item of curiosity I have about this matter of award routing rule enforcement is what the DL award routing rules are when published fares for other SkyTeam airlines allow a routing but DL CSRs say the routing violated DL's award routing rules using the same carriers as allowed in the OAL's published fare.

(I'd also note that AA is the leader in award routing rule flexibility, while I'd like to see DL become a leader in this area ... or at least come closer to matching them.)

DeltaCustomerInsights

Hi, all--

Let me introduce myself. I am Frank Wrenn with Delta's Customer Insights & Analytics group. My team supports the market research efforts of Jeff Robertson and others around the company.

So if you see a post from DeltaCustomerInsights helping Jeff out, it's for real.

Frank

vasantn

Welcome, Frank!

GUWonder

A big welcome to DLCustomerInsights. ^^

As I understood the OP, upgrades are to be cleared in the following order:

1. Platinum - Full Y
2. Gold - Full Y
3. Silver - Full Y
4. Platinum – B
5. Platinum – M
6. Platinum – H
7. Platinum – Q
8. Platinum – K
9. Platinum – L
10. Platinum – U
11. Platinum – T
12. Gold - B
13. Gold – M
14. Gold – H
15. Gold – Q
16. Gold – K
17. Gold – L
18. Gold – U
19. Gold – T
20. Silver - B
21. Silver – M
22. Silver – H
23. Silver – Q
24. Silver – K
25. Silver – L
26. Silver – U
27. Silver – T

Spiff

Thanks and Welcome to FlyerTalk, Frank!