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new DL CEO says airline will only accept long-term pilot contract

new DL CEO says airline will only accept long-term pilot contract

 
Old Jan 28, 04, 7:17 pm
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new DL CEO says airline will only accept long-term pilot contract

http://makeashorterlink.com/?L53225A37


ATLANTA -- Delta Air Lines' (DAL, news) pilots must agree to long-term concessions to help the nation's No. 3 carrier compete in the new difficult industry environment, Gerald Grinstein, the company's new chief executive, said.
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Old Jan 29, 04, 6:28 pm
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Its time for the pilot group to wake up and take the cut. They are dragging down a company with plenty of potential.

If I were the CEO, I would quit spending my cash and start massive down sizing. I would even consider locking out my pilots and hiring replacements at new wages. Probably ASA and Comair pilots and those 1000 or so on furlough. Obviously there would be court challenges and ALPA would probably win. But I would try it just to let them know whats coming.

I would hold on as long as possible and once the contract is up, replacements would already be waiting in the wings to take their place. If they try and pull any shenanigans, I would use the courts to excercise the right to void their contract. I would destroy their union and run ALPA out on their ear for good.

Trust me, there is plenty of pilots out their that would take the job in a minute at half pay.

I would start now the planning stages for a Chap 11 filing and start recruiting replacements under another company subsidiary and training would start as soon as necessary in 3rd party facilities.

This is setting up to be a very unique opporunity to remove ALPA from Delta. If they take the right, legal steps and possible force themselves into a smart bankruptcy, they will come out smelling like roses. And these pilots whose heads are up their ... so far they cant see anything will finally get their due!!
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Old Jan 30, 04, 12:59 pm
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The problem is that DL will never see any voluntary pay cuts out there until those on the frontline will see the respective cuts in management because of Uncle Leo.
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Old Jan 30, 04, 1:45 pm
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IMHO, if Leo hadn't walked away with all of those millions the pilots would be more flexible.
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Old Jan 30, 04, 2:31 pm
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"Burn, baby, burn..."

Note to self: short DAL...
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Old Jan 30, 04, 2:34 pm
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MSN Money Central Article

"Delta Airlines DAL is tumbling lower today after word from the airline's pilots' union, who said that optimism is fading amid contract negotiations. Following this news, Credit Suisse First Boston downgraded its rating on the stock to an "underperform" from a "neutral," on concerns that the contract talks might not conclude until next year, leaving DAL with higher costs than some of its competitors. CSFB also reduced its 12-month target price on the shares to $6 from $16. DAL has lost about nine percent of its value today and is approaching the 10 level. Not only is this the threshold between single- and double-digit territory, but it is a site that contained previous pullbacks in DAL in both August and November. Schaeffer's put/call open interest ratio (SOIR) for the stock has slowly been declining since October and now weighs in at 1.51, in the top 32 percent of the past year's worth of data. Today, speculative players have taken interest in the February 10 call and the July 12.50 call. On the short-interest front, there are currently 18.1 million DAL shares sold short, which equals a short-interest ratio of more than eight times the stock's average daily volume."

Ouch!!!

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited Jan 30, 2004).]
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Old Jan 30, 04, 3:36 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
"Burn, baby, burn..."

</font>
Our dear, departed friend Spiff is trolling again.
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Old Jan 30, 04, 3:43 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rssrsvp:
IMHO, if Leo hadn't walked away with all of those millions the pilots would be more flexible.</font>
Wrong. They as a whole do not think they are the problem. They are not all of it, but their contract is very expensive. They will bleed us down until the fat lady warms up and then if they are smart, they will agree to some sort of agreement. Remember, the 9 percent they are offering barely covers the raises they got the last 2 years so in the large scheme of things, ALPA hasn't offered anything.
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Old Jan 30, 04, 4:07 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by milemaker:
If I were the CEO, I would quit spending my cash and start massive down sizing. I would even consider locking out my pilots and hiring replacements at new wages.</font>
You would lose and there wouldn't be a Delta airlines.

It amazes me how critical people are of the Delta pilots. People here complain because they sometimes feel Delta doesn't treat the customers fairly. Don't you think the pilots feel the same if they were to give up some of their contract. Now, I am not saying they shouldn't make some concessions but I am sure the union is being very cautious of the given an inch and take a mile possibilities. How would you like it if your ex-CEO just walked out taking big time cash with him and your company wanted some of your money back because "times are tough"?

Personally, I like flying an airline that leads the way in pilot wages. I know WN pays a lot less and still has an excellent safety record. But if there are a group of people in the world that deserve a good salary, pilots (DL and others) are at the top of the list. They have an enourmous responsibility on their hands, work weekends, holidays, spend a lot of time away from their friends and family. Now, I know a lot of you do too and maybe you are underpaid for doing so. I also know it's the job that they signed up for but they also signed up for a certain amount of wages to do it.

Again, I am not saying they shouldn't make some concessions but can you blame them for trying to keep as much of what they have as they can?
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Old Jan 30, 04, 4:39 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by indufan:
You would lose and there wouldn't be a Delta airlines.

It amazes me how critical people are of the Delta pilots. People here complain because they sometimes feel Delta doesn't treat the customers fairly. Don't you think the pilots feel the same if they were to give up some of their contract. Now, I am not saying they shouldn't make some concessions but I am sure the union is being very cautious of the given an inch and take a mile possibilities. How would you like it if your ex-CEO just walked out taking big time cash with him and your company wanted some of your money back because "times are tough"?

Personally, I like flying an airline that leads the way in pilot wages. I know WN pays a lot less and still has an excellent safety record. But if there are a group of people in the world that deserve a good salary, pilots (DL and others) are at the top of the list. They have an enourmous responsibility on their hands, work weekends, holidays, spend a lot of time away from their friends and family. Now, I know a lot of you do too and maybe you are underpaid for doing so. I also know it's the job that they signed up for but they also signed up for a certain amount of wages to do it.

Again, I am not saying they shouldn't make some concessions but can you blame them for trying to keep as much of what they have as they can?
</font>
I do agree with you but it is not about what you think you are worth but what the company can afford. No airline can afford the executive perks that occured any more than they can afford the current pilot contract, especially when it is roughly 30 percent higher than any competitor. I have 19 years with DAL and for the first time am nervous about what could transpire. I do not want to see us in Chapter 11; I am sure no employee or FF does. However, if ALPA continues to push this thing, we will end up there. I keep hearing how the company doesn't want to negotiate. There isn't alot to negotiate. Pilot costs is one of the few areas that the costs have continued to rise. Accountability and dedication to this company must happen soon by all levels of management as well as all employee groups.
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Old Jan 30, 04, 4:40 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BertBamboo:
Our dear, departed friend Spiff is trolling again.</font>
Hardly.

I was referring to the pilots' attitude, not my own personal feelings on the matter. I do not want DL to go under.
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Old Jan 30, 04, 4:46 pm
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Bottom line is that the pilots pay is killing the company slowly like a cancer.

As a stockholder, I was appalled at the contract when it was signed and even more disgusted now that my share price is going lower and lower with every week.

My ideas are very much realistic; however, probably far too drastic for Delta Airlines. Trust me, most of what I said earlier could be done and legally. I am all for experienced pilots, etc., however, there is an excess of quite experienced pilots out there with no job at all. Do you honestly think they would not take a job paying $100,000 to $150,000 a year for doing something they truly love?

Leo is gone and I understand their plight. I did not like him from the first day he arrived. He was out of his league and had no business running an airline. He nearly destroyed the company. People think Ron Allen was so bad, he was nothing compared to Leo. At least customers came before most everything else under Ron. However, Leo is gone and its time to move on.

The time for the pilot group to stand up and do the right thing is now. If not, the the newly installed CEO should start making plans to replace them with lower paid very well qualified replacements. Maybe even make a raid on some AirTran pilots, wouldn't that be interesting?
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Old Jan 30, 04, 5:21 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by milemaker:
Do you honestly think they would not take a job paying $100,000 to $150,000 a year for doing something they truly love?</font>

Therein lies the problem. The job has lost most of it's appeal. It's become a hassle just to go to work and there is no end in sight, it just get's worse. Customers feel it, but they aren't the only ones - the employees feel it too. For many of the Pilots that I work with, this has become just another job. They don't enjoy coming to work like they used to. They all love to fly but it's much different than it was during the "glory days". So - the thought that there are a huge number of Pilots just sitting around waiting to become scabs simply for their love of the job, well, that's thankfully something from the past as well. I'm sure there are a certain number that would cross a picket line but not even a fraction of what would be required to run an airline the size of DL. ALPA is the largest Pilots union in the world, those that cross ALPA picket lines better be sure they really want to work for DL and plan on being there for the rest of their lives because they would never be able to go to work for another ALPA carrier, nor would they be welcome on another carriers jumpseat, etc., etc. - they would become pariahs in this industry. Finally, you're walking a very slippery slope. How low should these cuts go? How much do you value your safety when you fly? Do you want some half wit flying you around, someone that has half the training that our current pilots do? Where do you draw the line? The airlines don't know when to stop and how low to go - as long as it doesn't eat into the exec's salaries much they could care less.

[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited Jan 30, 2004).]
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Old Jan 30, 04, 5:36 pm
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Doesn't matter if they dont love the job. There are others that would. In addition, many would be so happy to make six figures they would take it in a heartbeat. ALPA thinks they are so powerful until they get run out on their ear. It would only take one airline to break them and they would crumble very easily.

Of course you'll always have your union loving folks who are too ignorant to understand economics and would therefore refuse to cross a line. So what, there are plenty to take their place.

These old fashioned airline people who refuse to acknowledge that the good old days are gone need a wake up call. Todays passenger demands a bus with wings. Therefore, all these pilots better realize they are becoming glorified slightly higher paid bus drivers and THATs IT!!! Sorry, but facts are facts. Living in another world and denying a pay cut is necessary because it will affect the stupid financial decisions you have made does not make it right or so.

The end is near for the DL pilots and holding out only makes things worse in my opinion. Roll up your sleeves and get the company profitable and when doing so, demand you get 10% profit sharing pre-tax on future earning for 10 years.

Some people make things waaaayyyy to difficult. All because their egos get in the way of smart business. Both ALPA and DAL are guilty of this.

I am simply stating what I would do if I offered a fair, equitable plan and was blown off by these blow hards!!
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Old Jan 30, 04, 6:28 pm
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It's too late to hire replacement pilots. The time to do that (lockout and hire replacements) was when the pilots were ****ing with the passengers around Christmas of 2000.

I'm afraid we are stuck with these high paid &#98&#97&#115&#116&#97&#114&#100&#115 until the contract expires.

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