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-   -   JFK Expansion Plans (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-skymiles-pre-worldperks-merger/61236-jfk-expansion-plans.html)

RobertS975 Jan 28, 04 8:04 am

JFK Expansion Plans
 
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040128/nyw056_1.html

Summary: new daily flights from JFK to SDG, DEN, SJU and SAN and SONG to RSW with added mainline service to LAX, SEA, SFO and LAS.

Also new DL connection to Savannah, Greensboro and Charleston SC.

[This message has been edited by RobertS975 (edited Jan 28, 2004).]

LexPassenger Jan 28, 04 8:07 am

Gee, we were posting at the same time.

Bump here for the first post.

RobertS975 Jan 28, 04 8:14 am

It is interseting, as someone posted in another thread, that the Song expansion is minimal and on a traditional Florida route to RSW. I am a bit surprised that the flights to LAS were not assigned to Song.

andymo99 Jan 28, 04 9:58 am

Let's use this thread and ignore the other.

Check out some pricing on these flights. I am finding very cheap ULT fares with no Saturday stay on many routes. There are also good full-Y fares (~$600 and change to SAN or SEA) and A fares too (~$800 and change to SAN or SEA).

Get 'em while they're hot!

RobertS975 Jan 28, 04 10:37 am

I think that these added flights to/from the west coast are indeed feeder flights to Europe as well as an attempt to defend NYC as a current DL hub and important O/D point. It won't be long before JetBlue announces expansion to more of the west coast.

BackOfTheBus Jan 28, 04 11:34 am

Sounds to me like lady DL is trying to dance the milonga with AA, stepping over B6 with her high heels http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Hopefully, DL will get screwed in the end! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by BackOfTheBus (edited Jan 28, 2004).]

Mister Nice Jan 28, 04 11:39 am

LAS and SONG - a complete failure - the load
factors into/from LAS on SONG operated flights are usually below 50% while mainline is in the %80 range - SONG has been soundly rejected on the LAS longhaul routes - seems much better suited to Northeast - FLA routes.

Erasmus Jan 28, 04 11:42 am

It's about time SAN got its JFK flights back. Now, what are the odds one of them turns out to be a red-eye? That would really be something. The CO flight to EWR is the only thing going (excepting B6, of course), and they know it---fares are always in the stratosphere for that flight.

indufan Jan 28, 04 11:46 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BackOfTheBus:
Hopefully, DL will get screwed in the end!</font>
Man, I am glad I don't have this kind of hostility.

ConnFlyer Jan 28, 04 12:21 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Erasmus:
It's about time SAN got its JFK flights back. Now, what are the odds one of them turns out to be a red-eye? That would really be something. The CO flight to EWR is the only thing going (excepting B6, of course), and they know it---fares are always in the stratosphere for that flight.</font>
One of the two SAN-JFK flights is a redeye. Many of these new flights are already loaded in Delta.com.

The lack of Song expansion (except RSW) is notable. Many inside DL say that Grinstein isn't very fond of it and may kill it. One problem with Song is that the 757's are a little too big for many routes. For example, the redeye SAN-JFK that DL is launching is probably too thin to fill a Song 757.

I doubt DL will make any money on these new flights (except maybe SDQ), but it will sure aggravate JBLU. JBLU's margins have already been squeezed down in the past few months and it looks like DL might squeeze them more.

RobertS975 Jan 28, 04 1:51 pm

The other welcome part of the announcement regarding JFK is that they will spend $300 million to upgrade the terminals. Both terminal 2 and 3 are quite dated and getting pretty shabby.

BertBamboo Jan 28, 04 2:02 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ConnFlyer:
.......Many inside DL say that Grinstein isn't very fond of it and may kill it......</font>
I hope the rumor is correct ConnFlyer.

Song represents a needless diversion of resources and management attention, as well as a severe case of brand confusion, for Delta.

Bruce’s complaint about the $25 Song change fee is a great example of brand confusion. Song is supposed to be a totally different airline, but Delta Medallions insist that they be accorded Delta benefits when flying on Song.

Song has been a much bigger mistake than the Medallion benefits/qualification fiasco ever was.

jeffreyt Jan 28, 04 3:14 pm

How many flights will we get back to JFK to from LAX? I want AA's 10!!!! And business elite-equipped aircraft, please.

jeffreyt Jan 28, 04 3:15 pm

never mind... it was answered in one of the links in another duplicate thread.

Robert Leach Jan 28, 04 3:29 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ConnFlyer:
Many inside DL say that Grinstein isn't very fond of it and may kill it. One problem with Song is that the 757's are a little too big for many routes.</font>

But, size was one of the main reasons the 757 was selected in the first place. Bigger size was felt to produce lower seat costs on a per seat basis.

Sounds like the expert bean counters (you know, the ones they had to put in those bankruptcy-proof plans for so that they would retain them because they were so good) didn't do the math quite right.

But, if true, good for Grinstein. I wish he would eliminate all of this single cabin experimental crap and focus on a high quality competitive full service airline, perhaps with three class service that includes a tight pitch cattle car section in the back for T fares or something. A small first class section in the RJs wouldn't hurt either.


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