People actually DO PAY for a FULL J ticket to Europe!
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Seat 1A
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People actually DO PAY for a FULL J ticket to Europe!
Wow, I actually witnessed this today at the DL BE check-in counter at JFK Terminal 2. The passenger standing next to me while I was checking in had just missed her JFK-FCO flight (where she had gotten a "Z" upgrade) and the agent was trying to rebook her (even though missing the flight was entirely her fault, not DL's). Problem is today (9/16)'s TATL flights are all VERY FULL. JFK-MXP was sold out, as were JFK-VCE, JFK-CDG (for the connection to FCO), while the second JFK-FCO had 1 seat left (J) in BE. The agent offered to rebook her on a JFK-AMS DL flight with an AMS-FCO connection on AZ. When the passenger found out that it had to be in Y, she asked if there were any other flights that had "Z" upgrades available. The agent told her that the only open BE seat anywhere later this evening was that 1 single seat left on the later JFK-FCO flight; she would have to pay the fare difference of about US$3000+. She thought about it for a moment, and then said, "Yes, I'll take it" and whipped out her credit card....so yes, amazingly, there are people who have no qualms about plopping down $3000 one-way for a full J TATL ticket!
Writing from the BE lounge at JFK waiting for my flight to CDG....
Writing from the BE lounge at JFK waiting for my flight to CDG....
#2
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
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Posts: 57,946
Yes indeedy.
If $3000 was the fare difference, then the one-way J was more like $4000-5000, depending on how much she paid for a a ticket that could be upgraded into Z class.
If $3000 was the fare difference, then the one-way J was more like $4000-5000, depending on how much she paid for a a ticket that could be upgraded into Z class.
#3
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,739
Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
The passenger ... had just missed her JFK-FCO flight (where she had gotten a "Z" upgrade) and the agent was trying to rebook her (even though missing the flight was entirely her fault, not DL's)...the second JFK-FCO had 1 seat left (J) in BE.
#4
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 859
For work, I usually find out about my travel plans the morning that I'm supposed to be leaving (M&A work). We often buy full fare business tickets as we only travel internationally in business class.
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,916
This is why AA is so much better with upgrades - I find at the airport if you have a valid upgrade and there are open seats, they will up you - while DL it's back of the bus city unless you pay....
#6
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New York City
Programs: AA EXP, DL DM, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,125
Of course people pay for full J. Just like people pay for full F (albeit a lot less people!)
Most of the people buyig full J probably arent on this site however! (Investment bankers, hedge fund guys, diplomats, CEOs etc etc!)
Most of the people buyig full J probably arent on this site however! (Investment bankers, hedge fund guys, diplomats, CEOs etc etc!)
#7
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SDF
Posts: 3,302
Why would they have "full fare" if no one ever paid for it? The more the merrier.
#8
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Originally Posted by elitetraveler
This is why AA is so much better with upgrades - I find at the airport if you have a valid upgrade and there are open seats, they will up you - while DL it's back of the bus city unless you pay....
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,318
mizzou, name me a diplomat that pays full non contract rate J?? Personally I have on many occasions bought full J's or D's when last minute travel necessitated it and there was nothing else available. Happens much more than you think. The only thing that I have managed to do in the past that this woman did not do is speak with SMS and get them to sell me a D rather than a J and save a grand or two.
#10
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: DUS
Posts: 4,004
Considering that the OP is based in the US, the title of the thread is indeed understandable and worth opening a new thread.
US airlines have lost most of their pricing power over the last decades, actually from the first moments after full deregulation, when free pricing was established, IIRC, in January of 1981.
Since then the fierce competition has eroded fare levels and more importantly fare restrictions to todays levels without advance purchase requirements or saturday night stays. In this circumstance, the comment by this poster is interesting
Once again, a perfect example of the state of the US airline industry, where airlines used to give out way too much for free, which resulted in the downward revenue spiral and the simple fact that a certain well educated bunch of travelers get a lot of perks for very little money.
Normally the weaker airlines would leave the market at some point, but not in the US with Ch.11, so under the bottom line, the competiton stays and the percentage of people paying full fare decreases, because bankrupt carriers like NW or DL can afford to charge significantly less being in Ch.11 and/or relax their fare restrictions, like DL ex Germany for example...
Good old Jeffrey Katz, former high shot at Sabre, AA and Swissair and now with Orbitz, IIRC, already critisized the abovementioned scenario nearly 10 years ago, when he described the chances of Swissair to get full fare pax out of ORD against the * alliance competition...at some point, you have to discount like crazy, the question is, if your airline can afford to discount @:-)
US airlines have lost most of their pricing power over the last decades, actually from the first moments after full deregulation, when free pricing was established, IIRC, in January of 1981.
Since then the fierce competition has eroded fare levels and more importantly fare restrictions to todays levels without advance purchase requirements or saturday night stays. In this circumstance, the comment by this poster is interesting
Originally Posted by elitetraveler
This is why AA is so much better with upgrades - I find at the airport if you have a valid upgrade and there are open seats, they will up you - while DL it's back of the bus city unless you pay....
Normally the weaker airlines would leave the market at some point, but not in the US with Ch.11, so under the bottom line, the competiton stays and the percentage of people paying full fare decreases, because bankrupt carriers like NW or DL can afford to charge significantly less being in Ch.11 and/or relax their fare restrictions, like DL ex Germany for example...
Good old Jeffrey Katz, former high shot at Sabre, AA and Swissair and now with Orbitz, IIRC, already critisized the abovementioned scenario nearly 10 years ago, when he described the chances of Swissair to get full fare pax out of ORD against the * alliance competition...at some point, you have to discount like crazy, the question is, if your airline can afford to discount @:-)
#11
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: New York City
Programs: AA EXP, DL DM, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,125
Originally Posted by hfly
mizzou, name me a diplomat that pays full non contract rate J?? Personally I have on many occasions bought full J's or D's when last minute travel necessitated it and there was nothing else available. Happens much more than you think. The only thing that I have managed to do in the past that this woman did not do is speak with SMS and get them to sell me a D rather than a J and save a grand or two.
Last edited by mizzou miles; Sep 17, 2006 at 7:58 am
#12
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: RTP
Programs: AA(EXP), BA, Hilton, Starwood
Posts: 1,250
Last year during the flooding in Mumbai I bought a full fare one way business class tix from Bangalore through Delhi to Frankfurt to Heathrow to JFK to RDU on the morning of my departure.
I think it was $6.5K or something like that as it spanned Jet Airways, Air India (codeshare with Lufthansa - worst flight I've ever been on), Lufthansa, BA, and AA.
I think it was $6.5K or something like that as it spanned Jet Airways, Air India (codeshare with Lufthansa - worst flight I've ever been on), Lufthansa, BA, and AA.
#13
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Posts: 1,857
I have had more then one full fare BE ticket purchased for me by my employers.... (I can't imagine doing it myself!)
#14
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL DM & 5MM, WN
Posts: 1,451
I do think the episode mentioned by the OP deserves some deeper thought. I could certainly put an extra $3000 on the years' expenses for a Business Class trip to Europe.
But I never have. I will either book an upgraded ticket on Delta or book Premium Economy on Virgin or Premium Coach on United.
That extra $3000 could finance all of the rest of one's expenses on a typical weeklong business trip through Europe. There are few plausible business reasons to not accept five to eight hours in a narrower, tighter space in exchange for that kind of money.
But I never have. I will either book an upgraded ticket on Delta or book Premium Economy on Virgin or Premium Coach on United.
That extra $3000 could finance all of the rest of one's expenses on a typical weeklong business trip through Europe. There are few plausible business reasons to not accept five to eight hours in a narrower, tighter space in exchange for that kind of money.
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Yes, I do know that many small to medium-sized corporations that don't necessarily have the travel volume to generate substantial corporate contracts do end up paying the J and D fares, and I have indeed had my employer pay exhorbitant sums for some J fares to South America and India for work but I guess what stood out for me in this case was that the lady was on a personal trip (she said she was going to meet her husband in Italy for a week long vacation) and had obviously gone through the effort of purchasing a Coach fare and using miles to upgrade (in otherwords, looking for the most cost-efficient way to travel in BE across the pond), but then in just a few seconds, decides to plop down another $3000 (which is more than what she spent for the entire JFK-FCO ticket in the first place) for that 60" pitch and 18.5" wide seat...
Hey, but why complain? If DL could get passengers like that every day... ^
Hey, but why complain? If DL could get passengers like that every day... ^