Delta asks pilots to reduce their pay

 
Old Apr 30, 03, 5:43 pm
  #1  
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Delta asks pilots to reduce their pay

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...3/30delta.html




[ The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 4/30/03 ]

Delta asks pilots to reduce their pay
Pilots' compensation would be cut by about one-third

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution


Delta Air Lines has asked pilots to accept a nearly one-third cut in pay, with possibly more concessions to come next year as the Atlanta airline tries to keep up with cost cuts by its competitors.

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Old Apr 30, 03, 7:00 pm
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BBBBWWWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAH

If I was a DL pilot, this would be my initial reaction. If my employer was in trouble I would probably agreed to a 10 percent temporary cut not a 22 + 4.5 percent cut. This seems to help prove the point that DL management is clueless.

Ask them to pass on the raise and a 5.5 cut then begin negotiations for further cuts across all labor fronts so you don't alienate just one labor faction.
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Old Apr 30, 03, 10:05 pm
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Well, considering pilots' pay and the hours they work each month, I'd say a reduction would be in order. Its a real world now days - not one where $200K or so for 36 or so hours a month is reasonable.

I'm in Dallas and the above figures are based on what we are told AA pilots do and are paid. I think DL's pilots are paid a bit more so I just assume the numbers quoted are in the ball park.
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Old Apr 30, 03, 10:30 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Sidecarr:
Well, considering pilots' pay and the hours they work each month, I'd say a reduction would be in order. Its a real world now days - not one where $200K or so for 36 or so hours a month is reasonable.

I'm in Dallas and the above figures are based on what we are told AA pilots do and are paid. I think DL's pilots are paid a bit more so I just assume the numbers quoted are in the ball park.
</font>

Still, a pay cut of one third? That is not the way to begin a negotiation like this. Sounds like Delta is high balling. Uncle Leo needs to be careful or he may soon find himself negotiating with a FA union too.
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Old Apr 30, 03, 10:32 pm
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As far as I am concerned, you can't pay pilots too much. I want it to be a great paying, much sought-after job that continues to attract outstanding qualified individuals. I want it to be competitive with (ideally) only the very best to carry this responsibility.

"Thank you, sir (or the occasional ma'am)," I say at the end of each and every flight.



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[This message has been edited by typical pm loser (edited 04-30-2003).]
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Old Apr 30, 03, 11:17 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by typical pm loser:
As far as I am concerned, you can't pay pilots too much. I want it to be a great paying, much sought-after job that continues to attract outstanding qualified individuals. I want it to be competitive with (ideally) only the very best to carry this responsibility.

"Thank you, sir (or the occasional ma'am)," I say at the end of each and every flight.



</font>
I agree!! Even though planes today are highly automated, these folks are still driving the bus when there is a problem. If there is ever an incident, I don't want 2-3 minutes to contemplate my life on the way down. I want someone highly qualified and trained up front. Through 25+ years of flying, I've always viewed the flight crews' first and foremost responsibility as ensuring my safety and opening the cabin door when it absolutely has to be opened. It has only happened once in my lifetime, but I never forgot how professional these folks were and how my life and safety was put before thiers. When it comes to that, you can't pay them enough.

I'll get off my soapbox now. Thank you.

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Old May 1, 03, 1:04 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Sidecarr:
Well, considering pilots' pay and the hours they work each month, I'd say a reduction would be in order. </font>
it's clearly in order. the question is one of timing, and DALPA is holding all the cards at this point. The vampire contract runs into 2005, and DL has already lost at arbitration the right to lay off any more pilots.

So what's management's response to holding such a weak hand? Demand 33% wage cuts, as a start... AND after Chairman Leo took a 10 then 15% temporary cut?

They'll be lucky if laughter is all that greets such an offer. Spitting and trampling on it would be understandable.

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Old May 1, 03, 2:29 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by typical pm loser:
I want it to be a great paying, much sought-after job that continues to attract outstanding qualified individuals.
</font>
Just like the US Congress, right?

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Old May 1, 03, 7:59 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by typical pm loser:
As far as I am concerned, you can't pay pilots too much. I want it to be a great paying, much sought-after job that continues to attract outstanding qualified individuals. I want it to be competitive with (ideally) only the very best to carry this responsibility.</font>
This attitude leads to ridiculous conclusions. We hear the same arguments made about schoolteachers: "They take care of our children. What job could be more important?" We hear it about firefighters, particularly after 9/11/01: "They risk their lives for us. We can't pay them too much."

But you really can. Schoolteachers in my suburban district can earn just under six figures at the top of their scale. Isn't that enough? Would $200,000 be better -- for the children! How about $300,000?

Pilots are among the highest-paid people in America. Their salaries are comparable to those of doctors, for much shorter hours. Is this OK with you?

Finally, please note that it we doubled or tripled the salaries of al these "essential" and "critical" people, the whole country would be bankrupt, and ordinary people like you and me wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Just think about it.

Bruce
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Old May 1, 03, 8:26 am
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While Delta needs concessions, DALPA also has a right to insist that Virginia Avenue spread the pain amongst ALL workgroups, union and non-union alike. It is sickening to see that Leo & Friends are still trying to turn union and non-union groups against each other even in a time of company crisis. Delta knows that it cannot impose similar cuts on the non-union groups because that would almost certainly result in at least one representation election. Hence, the company tries to paint the pilots as being the sole problem, while giving the appearance that the costs of the other members of the Delta family are flawless.

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Old May 1, 03, 8:29 am
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That may be the truth, however.

Bruce
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Old May 1, 03, 8:30 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
This attitude leads to ridiculous conclusions. We hear the same arguments made about schoolteachers: "They take care of our children. What job could be more important?" We hear it about firefighters, particularly after 9/11/01: "They risk their lives for us. We can't pay them too much."

But you really can. Schoolteachers in my suburban district can earn just under six figures at the top of their scale. Isn't that enough? Would $200,000 be better -- for the children! How about $300,000?

Pilots are among the highest-paid people in America. Their salaries are comparable to those of doctors, for much shorter hours. Is this OK with you?

Finally, please note that it we doubled or tripled the salaries of al these "essential" and "critical" people, the whole country would be bankrupt, and ordinary people like you and me wouldn't be able to afford to eat.

Just think about it.

Bruce
</font>
Bruce,

Just thought about it. I appreciate your extrapolation but it is just that. I am not speaking of anyone but pilots. As a surgeon, I delighted that these highly trained professionals make plenty of money. I can see your point about comparisons to other positions of responsibility in society, and it is a reasonable argument to make but you can't compare the training and exclusivity of the careers. How many teachers are there? How many experienced commercial pilots?

TPML



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Old May 1, 03, 8:40 am
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Well, I don't want to open up a can of worms, but here are some thoughts... DL pilots were awarded the top paying pilots contract after UA pilots went to the mat and did their slowdown summer from hell. We can all remember sweating out the late April 2001 DL contract deadline. In all fairness to the pilots, they had been level at mid-1990s levels for obviously many years. So they were awarded with a new and very lucrative contract. A few months later, the events of 9/11 occurred, and they industry has still not recovered. DALPA needs to accomodate to the new realities or DL will not remain viable.

We all want the experience and wisdom that makes up the DL cockpit team, but here is the can of worms part: Does anyone believe that when they board their ACA RJ or their Comair/ASA RJ that the cockpit experience comes anywhere close to that on the mainline jets? The average age and flight experience of the RJ pilots, especially the first officer, do not compare with the mainline pilots, IMO.
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Old May 1, 03, 8:43 am
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Rather than taking a pay cut, why not ask them to fly more. If Airtran and South West pilots can fly 68 hours a month why on earth can't the majors. 36 hours per month is a joke.
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Old May 1, 03, 10:15 am
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Mikepa, they're paid by the hour, so productivity increases help only so much.
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