the new standby fee
Sep 9, 2002, 1:05 pm
#61
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: DC ... NW Plat Elite, Hilton HHonors-Diamond, Hyatt-Diamond, Avis PS+, happily a _former_ DL PM
Posts: 586
Perhaps the best response is to lobby our elected officials to deny any further support of the airlines by way of government backed loans.
Let the true market forces act on these new policies. No re-regulation but no governemnt "help" of any sort either.
I see those forces already at work as my corporate travel dept today added DL to the list of "you may not fly domestically without prior executive permission" carriers.
Appearently DL was singled out (in addition to US) since 1) AirTran is available in many markets, and 2)UA, NW, or AA (negotiated discounts available) should available otherwise.
I don't know about that "negotiated discounts" part, as in how long they last at each of those carriers, but clearly, market forces are at work. I say, let 'em play out let's see what happens.
edited to add:
I'd also bet that CO did not get singled out yet because soemone in the decision making process is really p*ssed at DL about something. If that's really true, it just goes to show that every customer counts, ervery time.
[This message has been edited by theDeltaFlyer (edited 09-09-2002).]
Let the true market forces act on these new policies. No re-regulation but no governemnt "help" of any sort either.
I see those forces already at work as my corporate travel dept today added DL to the list of "you may not fly domestically without prior executive permission" carriers.
Appearently DL was singled out (in addition to US) since 1) AirTran is available in many markets, and 2)UA, NW, or AA (negotiated discounts available) should available otherwise.
I don't know about that "negotiated discounts" part, as in how long they last at each of those carriers, but clearly, market forces are at work. I say, let 'em play out let's see what happens.
edited to add:
I'd also bet that CO did not get singled out yet because soemone in the decision making process is really p*ssed at DL about something. If that's really true, it just goes to show that every customer counts, ervery time.
[This message has been edited by theDeltaFlyer (edited 09-09-2002).]
Sep 9, 2002, 1:06 pm
#62
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 145
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by theDeltaFlyer:
Perhaps the best response is to lobby our elected officials to deny any further support of the airlines by way of government backed loans.
Let the true market forces act on these new policies. No re-regulation but no governemnt "help" of any sort either.
I see those forces already at work as my corporate travel dept today added DL to the list of "you may not fly domestically without prior executive permission" carriers.
Appearently DL was singled out (in addition to US) since 1) AirTran is available in many markets, and 2)UA, NW, or AA (negotiated discounts available) should available otherwise.
I don't know about that "negotiated discounts" part, as in how long they last at each of those carriers, but clearly, market forces are at work. I say, let 'em play out let's see what happens.</font>
Perhaps the best response is to lobby our elected officials to deny any further support of the airlines by way of government backed loans.
Let the true market forces act on these new policies. No re-regulation but no governemnt "help" of any sort either.
I see those forces already at work as my corporate travel dept today added DL to the list of "you may not fly domestically without prior executive permission" carriers.
Appearently DL was singled out (in addition to US) since 1) AirTran is available in many markets, and 2)UA, NW, or AA (negotiated discounts available) should available otherwise.
I don't know about that "negotiated discounts" part, as in how long they last at each of those carriers, but clearly, market forces are at work. I say, let 'em play out let's see what happens.</font>
[This message has been edited by diesel33 (edited 09-09-2002).]
Sep 9, 2002, 1:12 pm
#63
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA;HH Diamond, Avis PS, DL PM & 1MM ... back to travelling the globe consulting aerospace engineering
Posts: 749
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by diesel33:
You can't have it both ways. The public wanted deregulation to get lower fares. Now, you want to rgulate us in everyway possible, except for the lower fares of course. This is called free enterprise.
</font>
You can't have it both ways. The public wanted deregulation to get lower fares. Now, you want to rgulate us in everyway possible, except for the lower fares of course. This is called free enterprise.
</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The strongest and smartest will no doubt survive. My money is on Delta!</font>
Strongest and smartest??? Let's see, anyone know where Univax went? How about Honeywell? Maybe someone could show me where you keep you computer punch cards?
No, the strongest and smartest don't usually win in the long run. The winners are those who innovate and time thier innovative implementation with a public outcry or some type natural/manmade disaster. Historically, this would give LUV, Airtran, JetBlue, etc ... the current opportunity for our next paradigm shift in avation.
With it's current financial strength, DL has a great opportunity to effect this shift. Unfortunately, it appears that DL is instead smellinging its own tail end and missing a truly historic and monumental opportunity
GMF
Sep 9, 2002, 1:13 pm
#64
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/2MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,649
Regarding the idea of everyone booking the same flight and then 100 of us trying to standby for the earlier one at $100 a pop:
I prefer this idea: Let's all book the same flight so it is overbooked by a lot. Then we all show up in time for the earlier flight. DL will undoubtedly encourage us to get on the earlier flight, without charging the standby fee, as they expect to have to bump later. We all refuse to get on the earlier flight, because DL can't have its cake and eat it too. We must play by the rules. Therefore, we all wait for the later flight, and some of us collect bump vouchers.
I prefer this idea: Let's all book the same flight so it is overbooked by a lot. Then we all show up in time for the earlier flight. DL will undoubtedly encourage us to get on the earlier flight, without charging the standby fee, as they expect to have to bump later. We all refuse to get on the earlier flight, because DL can't have its cake and eat it too. We must play by the rules. Therefore, we all wait for the later flight, and some of us collect bump vouchers.
Sep 9, 2002, 1:16 pm
#65
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,906
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
Yeah, but if I show up early, doesn't Delta benefit just as much as I do by getting me out of there? Why would they refuse to do something that helps them as much as it helps me? And getting me out early costs NOTHING! It starts to look like they hate their customers.
Bruce</font>
Yeah, but if I show up early, doesn't Delta benefit just as much as I do by getting me out of there? Why would they refuse to do something that helps them as much as it helps me? And getting me out early costs NOTHING! It starts to look like they hate their customers.
Bruce</font>
Sep 9, 2002, 1:16 pm
#66
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,752
Here's the issue:
When a company makes a change in policy, it takes time to settle in. (I hope this one never does, but anyway...)
The first thing any organization must do when there is change is acknoweledge that change takes getting used to. Diesel is backing up DL's change without regard to our feeling it out. Please correct me if I am wrong, but his posts seem to say, "This new way is fare, forget about the old way, and live with it." However, I would imagine, Diesel, that two months ago, you smiled when you could get a pax out on an earlier flight without a fee.
Change is hard. Yes, we have to get used to it. Perhaps we won't, and we'll leave. I can't predict what will happen. But I can say that agents have the capacity to come across either as guides or as guards. I'll choose the airline that guides.
When a company makes a change in policy, it takes time to settle in. (I hope this one never does, but anyway...)
The first thing any organization must do when there is change is acknoweledge that change takes getting used to. Diesel is backing up DL's change without regard to our feeling it out. Please correct me if I am wrong, but his posts seem to say, "This new way is fare, forget about the old way, and live with it." However, I would imagine, Diesel, that two months ago, you smiled when you could get a pax out on an earlier flight without a fee.
Change is hard. Yes, we have to get used to it. Perhaps we won't, and we'll leave. I can't predict what will happen. But I can say that agents have the capacity to come across either as guides or as guards. I'll choose the airline that guides.
Sep 9, 2002, 1:22 pm
#67
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,906
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by diesel33:
Then just buy the super low fare and pay the $100 fee for standby when you schedule dictates. In most cases your low fare plus the standby fee will still be much lower than the unrestricted fares.
Example:
lowest published roundtrip fare from ATL-LAX is $268.00 plus taxes and fees. The full Y fare is $1151 each way plus taxes and fees.
So $268 plus $100 is $368. that is much lower than the $2302 Y fare. Seems like simple math to me!</font>
Then just buy the super low fare and pay the $100 fee for standby when you schedule dictates. In most cases your low fare plus the standby fee will still be much lower than the unrestricted fares.
Example:
lowest published roundtrip fare from ATL-LAX is $268.00 plus taxes and fees. The full Y fare is $1151 each way plus taxes and fees.
So $268 plus $100 is $368. that is much lower than the $2302 Y fare. Seems like simple math to me!</font>
Sep 9, 2002, 1:25 pm
#68
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,906
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by diesel33:
Dear GMF,
You can't have it both ways. The public wanted deregulation to get lower fares. Now, you want to rgulate us in everyway possible, except for the lower fares of course. This is called free enterprise. The strongest and smartest will no doubt survive. My money is on Delta!</font>
Dear GMF,
You can't have it both ways. The public wanted deregulation to get lower fares. Now, you want to rgulate us in everyway possible, except for the lower fares of course. This is called free enterprise. The strongest and smartest will no doubt survive. My money is on Delta!</font>
self-regulation. There are more regulations than ever, and you and your company are the ones making them!
[This message has been edited by RobertS975 (edited 09-09-2002).]
Sep 9, 2002, 1:31 pm
#69
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: ATL - DL PM
Posts: 84
One of my friends loves the new policy... but he's non-rev. Seems backwards, doesn't it?
(non-revs don't need to answer that)
[This message has been edited by Southern Traveller (edited 09-09-2002).]
(non-revs don't need to answer that)
[This message has been edited by Southern Traveller (edited 09-09-2002).]
Sep 9, 2002, 1:39 pm
#70
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 145
Dear GMF,
What your examples clearly pointed out was that these people didn't adapt what they had. Clearly showing there level of "smartness".
Everybody is saying that it's ridiculous to have a fee for standby, isn't that the same as everybody telling Orville and Wilbur that they will never be able to build one of them there flying machines?
The smartest will survive because they adapt to their environment, that is exactly what DL is doing, we are adapting our policies to better help us "survive." Only in this cause, our move to adapt, doesn't agree with you so it is obviously WRONG.
[This message has been edited by diesel33 (edited 09-09-2002).]
What your examples clearly pointed out was that these people didn't adapt what they had. Clearly showing there level of "smartness".
Everybody is saying that it's ridiculous to have a fee for standby, isn't that the same as everybody telling Orville and Wilbur that they will never be able to build one of them there flying machines?
The smartest will survive because they adapt to their environment, that is exactly what DL is doing, we are adapting our policies to better help us "survive." Only in this cause, our move to adapt, doesn't agree with you so it is obviously WRONG.
[This message has been edited by diesel33 (edited 09-09-2002).]
Sep 9, 2002, 1:51 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: He who dies with the most miles wins!!
Programs: WorldPerks Demoted again to SE, DL 3.1MM Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 11,674
I am as guilty as everyone else here.....
but, why don't we just ignore diesel and end this crap?
but, why don't we just ignore diesel and end this crap?
Sep 9, 2002, 1:58 pm
#72
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: UA-1K, AA-PLT, *wood PLT, Hertz #1Gold 5*
Posts: 71
I am finally seeing why Delta's policy of not encouraging their employees to participate on this board is a good policy.
Boy, I miss Russ! He was so helpful and low key.
Boy, I miss Russ! He was so helpful and low key.
Sep 9, 2002, 2:09 pm
#73
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, WA;HH Diamond, Avis PS, DL PM & 1MM ... back to travelling the globe consulting aerospace engineering
Posts: 749
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by diesel33:
My family and I appreciate the revenue that all of you generate for DL (a miniscule part of which makes up my paycheck).</font>
My family and I appreciate the revenue that all of you generate for DL (a miniscule part of which makes up my paycheck).</font>
*Leisure travellers
*Business travellers
*USPS
*Cartage on contract
*Companies advertising on DL
*SkyTeam partners and other airlines
*Taxpayers who have helped to bail DL out of its endless debt hole
Even a union steward who is fully supported by union dues ought to recognize the above list as his/her real customers, and then act accordingly. Failure to recognize that his/her union wage is supported by customer finances only leads labor down a dark, and decadent path.
It is a wise man/woman who never forgets that every revenue source into a company constitues a customer for everyone within that receiving company. Only fools and PTC (a software company who's customers hate them) fail to recognize who their real customers are and treat them with (often times unwarrented) respect and gratitude.
GMF
Sep 9, 2002, 2:11 pm
#74
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: DEN DL - PM, UA - Premier Exec, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 100
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:
diesel33,
You don't seem to understand my situation. I plan very well, thank you very much. I buy tickets for the LAST flight of the day that I could reasonably want to take. Then I fly standby on whatever flight is available when I actually get to the airport.
If Delta tries to impose a $100 fee on that behavior, I'll just sit in the Crown Room and COST them $100 in liquor (and I don't drink!).
If I'm willing to trade my valuable seat on a latyer flight for an empty seat an an earlier flight, Delta should accept that offer -- at no charge. And I suspect that they will. This stupid rule has little chance of staying in effect for more than a short time -- if at all.
Bruce</font>
diesel33,
You don't seem to understand my situation. I plan very well, thank you very much. I buy tickets for the LAST flight of the day that I could reasonably want to take. Then I fly standby on whatever flight is available when I actually get to the airport.
If Delta tries to impose a $100 fee on that behavior, I'll just sit in the Crown Room and COST them $100 in liquor (and I don't drink!).
If I'm willing to trade my valuable seat on a latyer flight for an empty seat an an earlier flight, Delta should accept that offer -- at no charge. And I suspect that they will. This stupid rule has little chance of staying in effect for more than a short time -- if at all.
Bruce</font>
Bruce,
I'm not defending Delta here - but I think your method of booking flights is exactly that they are trying to stop. They want you to buy a ticket in the fare class available for the flight you are going to take. They also want to know what flight you really plan on taking.
In all honesty, I don't believe this policy is that horrible. They just want people to book what they will fly. I don't think the charge needs to be $100 though. With todays discount fares, that can be over 50% of the original cost. Maybe $50 would be more reasonable.
Brian
Sep 9, 2002, 2:15 pm
#75
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 386
If DL thinks this is going to encourage more passengers to buy Y fares they are sorely mistaken. Some will pay the $100 fee but most will be continually irritated by it.
If I can get on an earlier flight because my work is done I can't pass that $100 off to my employer. So I have to decide whether XX hours home is worth $100 out of my pocket. That really sits poorly with me. There is no real justification in the $100 fee. How can it cost $100 to get on an earlier flight with open seats? $25 I can understand. $100 no way.
If I can get on an earlier flight because my work is done I can't pass that $100 off to my employer. So I have to decide whether XX hours home is worth $100 out of my pocket. That really sits poorly with me. There is no real justification in the $100 fee. How can it cost $100 to get on an earlier flight with open seats? $25 I can understand. $100 no way.