Delta Aligns Ticket Policies to Fare Value; Makes Changes to Paper Ticket Policy Also
Sep 5, 2002, 3:08 pm
#76
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While these changes are without a doubt undesirable, I think that it's worth looking at the big picture for the moment:
Delta Air Lines is arguably the strongest network carrier in America right now. Delta frequent-fliers don't have to worry about a bankruptcy filing, either now or in the forseeable future. And to top it off, Deltoids will almost certainly be able to enjoy an expanded network (e.g., hubs/major ops in LHR, SFO, NRT, MIA, or ORD) by this time next year, should certain of its competitors continue on its course.
Again, nobody likes the changes. But when you look at the sum total, Deltoids have it MUCH better than the FFs at UA, US, and AA, who have to worry about the FF program AND the airline...
Delta Air Lines is arguably the strongest network carrier in America right now. Delta frequent-fliers don't have to worry about a bankruptcy filing, either now or in the forseeable future. And to top it off, Deltoids will almost certainly be able to enjoy an expanded network (e.g., hubs/major ops in LHR, SFO, NRT, MIA, or ORD) by this time next year, should certain of its competitors continue on its course.
Again, nobody likes the changes. But when you look at the sum total, Deltoids have it MUCH better than the FFs at UA, US, and AA, who have to worry about the FF program AND the airline...
Sep 5, 2002, 3:15 pm
#77
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Here is is in simple easy to read format:
© Copyright 2002, Travel Skills Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved
<< **NEWSBITE from THE TICKET Newsletter**>>
To read this Newsbite online, see
http://www.travelskills.com/ticketar...2/newrules.htm
DATE: Thursday, September 5, 2002, 10:30 a.m.
FROM: [email protected]
RE: Delta Joins the Pack
This morning, Delta altered its rules regarding non-refundable fares, aligning it with new policies enacted over the last week by US Airways, Northwest, Continental and American Airlines. (NOTE: As we go to broadcast this, Delta has not said whether or not it would stop offering base miles for nonrefundable tickets, as US Airways did last week. Stayed tuned for the upcoming September issue of THE TICKET for an update on that!)
Here goes:
>For tickets purchased from today on for travel beginning on Oct 1, nonrefundable tickets must be used for the flights ticketed, unless you have paid a change fee (currently $100) to change your itinerary prior to departure. (You’ll also have to pay any difference in the applicable fare.)
>Unless you have called to change your itinerary and paid a change fee and any difference in the applicable fare, your ticket will be worthless after the departure date.
>Starting January 1, you’ll have to pay a $100 fee to standby for a different flight on the same day of ticketed travel. (Currently, Delta allows those on nonrefundable fares to standby for an earlier or later flight on the same day for free.)
>Delta will now charge $20 for paper tickets, and will no longer make exceptions for paper tickets generated by travel agents, or for Medallion level flyers (as it has done in the past).
>Delta reiterated its no-favor, no-waivers policy, saying that travel agents will no longer be able to: fiddle with advance purchase/ticketing time limits or maximum stay requirements; refund nonrefundable tickets; waive service charges.
>Delta sez: “These new policies allow Delta to cover the costs associated with customers who don’t show up for flights, while giving customers who are willing to pay a fee the flexibility to standby on a different flight the same day of their reservations.”
What are your thought or feelings about these new policies? Let us know: mailto:[email protected]
Look for more details and commentary in the September issue of THE TICKET coming next week!
Delta Press Release: http://www.delta.com/home/press/taci...20Fare%20Value
------------\
If this message was forwarded to you and you'd like to sign up for personal delivery of THE TICKET newsletter and NewsBites like this, just provide your e-mail address at http://www.travelskills.com/signup.htm.
>>END<<
© Copyright 2002, Travel Skills Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved
© Copyright 2002, Travel Skills Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved
<< **NEWSBITE from THE TICKET Newsletter**>>
To read this Newsbite online, see
http://www.travelskills.com/ticketar...2/newrules.htm
DATE: Thursday, September 5, 2002, 10:30 a.m.
FROM: [email protected]
RE: Delta Joins the Pack
This morning, Delta altered its rules regarding non-refundable fares, aligning it with new policies enacted over the last week by US Airways, Northwest, Continental and American Airlines. (NOTE: As we go to broadcast this, Delta has not said whether or not it would stop offering base miles for nonrefundable tickets, as US Airways did last week. Stayed tuned for the upcoming September issue of THE TICKET for an update on that!)
Here goes:
>For tickets purchased from today on for travel beginning on Oct 1, nonrefundable tickets must be used for the flights ticketed, unless you have paid a change fee (currently $100) to change your itinerary prior to departure. (You’ll also have to pay any difference in the applicable fare.)
>Unless you have called to change your itinerary and paid a change fee and any difference in the applicable fare, your ticket will be worthless after the departure date.
>Starting January 1, you’ll have to pay a $100 fee to standby for a different flight on the same day of ticketed travel. (Currently, Delta allows those on nonrefundable fares to standby for an earlier or later flight on the same day for free.)
>Delta will now charge $20 for paper tickets, and will no longer make exceptions for paper tickets generated by travel agents, or for Medallion level flyers (as it has done in the past).
>Delta reiterated its no-favor, no-waivers policy, saying that travel agents will no longer be able to: fiddle with advance purchase/ticketing time limits or maximum stay requirements; refund nonrefundable tickets; waive service charges.
>Delta sez: “These new policies allow Delta to cover the costs associated with customers who don’t show up for flights, while giving customers who are willing to pay a fee the flexibility to standby on a different flight the same day of their reservations.”
What are your thought or feelings about these new policies? Let us know: mailto:[email protected]
Look for more details and commentary in the September issue of THE TICKET coming next week!
Delta Press Release: http://www.delta.com/home/press/taci...20Fare%20Value
------------\
If this message was forwarded to you and you'd like to sign up for personal delivery of THE TICKET newsletter and NewsBites like this, just provide your e-mail address at http://www.travelskills.com/signup.htm.
>>END<<
© Copyright 2002, Travel Skills Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Sep 5, 2002, 3:24 pm
#78
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by avek00:
Deltoids have it MUCH better than the FFs at UA, US, and AA, who have to worry about the FF program AND the airline... </font>
Deltoids have it MUCH better than the FFs at UA, US, and AA, who have to worry about the FF program AND the airline... </font>
[This message has been edited by mikey1003 (edited 09-05-2002).]
Sep 5, 2002, 4:03 pm
#79
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by theDeltaFlyer:
I have flown several fully refundable Q fares in the last 6 months. If the rules say refundable, the they're refundable.</font>
I have flown several fully refundable Q fares in the last 6 months. If the rules say refundable, the they're refundable.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Beckles:
I've bought refundable tickets as low as K class on Delta, there are plenty of K, Q, H, and M refundable tickets out there, and unless DL is going a totally different route than other airlines (which is unlikely), those tickets will not be affected by these changes.</font>
I've bought refundable tickets as low as K class on Delta, there are plenty of K, Q, H, and M refundable tickets out there, and unless DL is going a totally different route than other airlines (which is unlikely), those tickets will not be affected by these changes.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by andymo99:
I did think about that, robsfla. But Revenue Mgmt will probably account for that. In fact, it will likely make things more predictable overall, meaning fewer oversells.</font>
I did think about that, robsfla. But Revenue Mgmt will probably account for that. In fact, it will likely make things more predictable overall, meaning fewer oversells.</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
What are your thought or feelings about these new policies? Let us know: mailto:[email protected]
</font>
What are your thought or feelings about these new policies? Let us know: mailto:[email protected]
</font>
Sep 5, 2002, 4:06 pm
#80
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: ATL - DL DM/3MM - HH Lifetime Diamond - Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 3,117
I talked with SMS, they haven't figured out all the new rules yet as all they can do is read the same announcement posted here.
As to standby for mech or weather problems, the lady I spoke with said yes to mech, but no to weather delays.
I told her that I thought that this would also effect employees flying standby on flights late in the day as the seats will not have been opened up by others getting on earlier flights. Her response was "Oh we've already been talking about that around here."
This will be my last year as PM as I will be flying Air Tran much more for the flexability. One of PM's advantage was that I was usually toward the top of the standby list.
As to standby for mech or weather problems, the lady I spoke with said yes to mech, but no to weather delays.
I told her that I thought that this would also effect employees flying standby on flights late in the day as the seats will not have been opened up by others getting on earlier flights. Her response was "Oh we've already been talking about that around here."
This will be my last year as PM as I will be flying Air Tran much more for the flexability. One of PM's advantage was that I was usually toward the top of the standby list.
Sep 5, 2002, 5:47 pm
#81
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Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA**US Airways Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,338
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by russellt:
I'm sitting here working on my tax return and reading this forum at the same time. My observation is how simular the IRS Code and airline rules are getting to be.</font>
I'm sitting here working on my tax return and reading this forum at the same time. My observation is how simular the IRS Code and airline rules are getting to be.</font>
Sep 5, 2002, 5:47 pm
#82
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
Programs: Delta DM/Amex Reserve 2 Million Miler
Posts: 398
3 things we could all clarify.#1.is it true same day standby is not allowed on Southwest ?
#2 On the nonrefundable issue can we still apply the credit towards another ticket up until when the day before ? ,the day of travel or until midnight the day of travel ? and does it have to be the same city pair ?
and back to the standby issue #3..if we are running late how long after scheduled departure can we standby for free later in the day(I think AMR said 2 hours?) so if we book earlier just in case we get out of meeting earlier we could still standby later for free ???
can anyone add some clarity on these issues ??
#2 On the nonrefundable issue can we still apply the credit towards another ticket up until when the day before ? ,the day of travel or until midnight the day of travel ? and does it have to be the same city pair ?
and back to the standby issue #3..if we are running late how long after scheduled departure can we standby for free later in the day(I think AMR said 2 hours?) so if we book earlier just in case we get out of meeting earlier we could still standby later for free ???
can anyone add some clarity on these issues ??
Sep 5, 2002, 5:48 pm
#83
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Posts: 270
I reread the new rules carefully regarding the Shuttle. There is a $100 fee for flying stand-by from a peak flight to another peak flight. That is ridiculous - it defeats the whole purpose of the Shuttle.
Sep 5, 2002, 7:29 pm
#84
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: LAS
Programs: WN:No status in 2015; UA:1K long gone (1995-2003).
Posts: 1,595
In response to a question above, Southwest permits same day standby travel on non-refundable fares BUT requires an add/collect up to Y fare. Sometimes this could be as low as $20, in other cases, higher. There's no change fee or penalty other than the difference between fare booked and Y. Also, remember, their current maximum unrestricted one way fare anywhere in the country is $299.
Southwest has no change fee and gives full $ credit for unused tickets, or even the unused return portion of a round trip ticket. You can cancel reservations on their website, and the funds are usually immediately available for reuse/rebooking. If you were a no-show, plug in the PNR and the funds will be available for reuse. The funds from up to four unused PNR's can be combined to purchase a new ticket.
At this writing, United has not yet announced any change in their policies: same day standby is still permitted and they have not implemented use it or lose it. As a UA 1K flyer, however, I'm resigned to the likelihood they will following the other lemmings and I'll be amazed if they don't. The standby flexibility is the only remaining reason I fly UA; if they eliminate that, I expect 90% of my travel will switch to WN as they cover my primary markets of LAX, LAS and RNO.
Southwest has no change fee and gives full $ credit for unused tickets, or even the unused return portion of a round trip ticket. You can cancel reservations on their website, and the funds are usually immediately available for reuse/rebooking. If you were a no-show, plug in the PNR and the funds will be available for reuse. The funds from up to four unused PNR's can be combined to purchase a new ticket.
At this writing, United has not yet announced any change in their policies: same day standby is still permitted and they have not implemented use it or lose it. As a UA 1K flyer, however, I'm resigned to the likelihood they will following the other lemmings and I'll be amazed if they don't. The standby flexibility is the only remaining reason I fly UA; if they eliminate that, I expect 90% of my travel will switch to WN as they cover my primary markets of LAX, LAS and RNO.
Sep 5, 2002, 8:00 pm
#85
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
I find it hard to believe that you never arrived at airport early and went standby on earlier flight same day.
</font>
I find it hard to believe that you never arrived at airport early and went standby on earlier flight same day.
</font>
I think a lot has to do with my flying DL from SFO and SJC, and there isn't enough frequency to catch an earlier flight. A lot of my DL traffic is international, and there is only one flight.
Sep 5, 2002, 8:13 pm
#86
Join Date: Dec 2000
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jwhite4:
Forgetting for a minute the effects of the changes (is $100 standby a good thing, etc), the TRULY sad thing is that Delta had a chance here to be DIFFERENT. They didn't jump on the bandwagon, they were in fact I believe the last of the major carriers to make an announcement (assumption being that smaller carriers like Southwest, America West, etc. won't announce similar changes).
They could have very easier converted this to a positive spin advertisement:
"USAirways stopped status mile accrual on low fares, Delta still allows it.
American, NW, ... instituted a use it or lose it rule for refundable tickets. Delta still allows full ticket value (less change fee) up to 1 yr after the original flight.
United, American, ... require you to pay $100 just for the privilege of standing by for a different flight on the same day of travel. Delta continues to allow you to do this at no extra charge."
...
From at least the Flyertalk postings (across all the Forums), it seemed like there was a genuine possibility that travellers might change airlines (where possible) because of the new restrictions at their airline (whether it be AA, CO, NW, UA, US), and that the least restrictive one had the best chance of picking up new travellers. As pointed out many times, one of the reasons Southwest does so good is not because of it's generous benefits, or extensive network, but rather because people seek them out and enjoy flying them.
Delta had a similar opportunity here, to be the airline people wanted to try to fly because the they didn't like the restrictions (and more importantly impression it gives it's passengers). Instead, they went along with most of the other changes, doing nothing to make themselves look different from any of the other airlines.
I realize that airlines need income to survive, but I have doubts on how much (really little) money they expect these fees to bring in. They need to get people interested in flying (like SouthWest does), and added more restrictions does nothing towards this goal.
This is what makes today a sad day for the Delta family.
Jeff</font>
Forgetting for a minute the effects of the changes (is $100 standby a good thing, etc), the TRULY sad thing is that Delta had a chance here to be DIFFERENT. They didn't jump on the bandwagon, they were in fact I believe the last of the major carriers to make an announcement (assumption being that smaller carriers like Southwest, America West, etc. won't announce similar changes).
They could have very easier converted this to a positive spin advertisement:
"USAirways stopped status mile accrual on low fares, Delta still allows it.
American, NW, ... instituted a use it or lose it rule for refundable tickets. Delta still allows full ticket value (less change fee) up to 1 yr after the original flight.
United, American, ... require you to pay $100 just for the privilege of standing by for a different flight on the same day of travel. Delta continues to allow you to do this at no extra charge."
...
From at least the Flyertalk postings (across all the Forums), it seemed like there was a genuine possibility that travellers might change airlines (where possible) because of the new restrictions at their airline (whether it be AA, CO, NW, UA, US), and that the least restrictive one had the best chance of picking up new travellers. As pointed out many times, one of the reasons Southwest does so good is not because of it's generous benefits, or extensive network, but rather because people seek them out and enjoy flying them.
Delta had a similar opportunity here, to be the airline people wanted to try to fly because the they didn't like the restrictions (and more importantly impression it gives it's passengers). Instead, they went along with most of the other changes, doing nothing to make themselves look different from any of the other airlines.
I realize that airlines need income to survive, but I have doubts on how much (really little) money they expect these fees to bring in. They need to get people interested in flying (like SouthWest does), and added more restrictions does nothing towards this goal.
This is what makes today a sad day for the Delta family.
Jeff</font>
Sep 5, 2002, 8:37 pm
#87
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: Airline free agent; Starwood Platinum; Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 286
Folks are taking this news a little better than I ever expected. Perhaps it is because we were all waiting for the shoe to drop... we hoped Delta had the foresight not to do it, but we're really not surprised.
I won't lament how much this bites, how unfair it is, and how stupid the folks on Virginia Ave are. But, I have a practical question.... For those of us living in ATL, what options do we have?
In the early postings on the US, CO, AA forums there was lots of talk of defecting. But now, who do we defect to? AirTran doesn't really go where I need to go. If Southwest or JetBlue served Atlanta, I'd go there in a heartbeat.
Two years ago, I bailed over to UA. I came back to DL a year ago and am now GM. UA is still an option for me, but is it only a matter of time before they join the others?
I think we have VERY few options in Atlanta and DL is banking on that.
I will write the obligatory letter to Vicki (albeit with little hopes of it having any impact), but I'm also going to write to every one of my Congressmen. Whatever happened to the Passenger Bill of Rights? I agree that it may be time for re-regulation. That might just gain some momentum when the politicos getting out of DC on Friday afternoon can't go standby... or, do they fly on full-fare?
I won't lament how much this bites, how unfair it is, and how stupid the folks on Virginia Ave are. But, I have a practical question.... For those of us living in ATL, what options do we have?
In the early postings on the US, CO, AA forums there was lots of talk of defecting. But now, who do we defect to? AirTran doesn't really go where I need to go. If Southwest or JetBlue served Atlanta, I'd go there in a heartbeat.
Two years ago, I bailed over to UA. I came back to DL a year ago and am now GM. UA is still an option for me, but is it only a matter of time before they join the others?
I think we have VERY few options in Atlanta and DL is banking on that.
I will write the obligatory letter to Vicki (albeit with little hopes of it having any impact), but I'm also going to write to every one of my Congressmen. Whatever happened to the Passenger Bill of Rights? I agree that it may be time for re-regulation. That might just gain some momentum when the politicos getting out of DC on Friday afternoon can't go standby... or, do they fly on full-fare?
Sep 5, 2002, 8:38 pm
#88
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Location: atlanta, georgia (usa)
Posts: 330
CO will not charge One-Pass elite customers any penalty for earlier-flight standby's according to their telephone agents. This is a break in the ranks. DL will be ill-advised to leave its Medallions holding the worst hand in the industry.
Sep 5, 2002, 9:41 pm
#89
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA - AirTran Elite #1 FF * Delta Diamond Medallion * Starwood Platinum * PriorityClub Gold * Hilton Diamond
Posts: 672
Alright, I'm Delta PM because I fly out west but anywhere on the East Coast I take AirTran and the reasons keep getting better and better year after year.
Delta really can't think straight. They're surrounded by Southwest and AirTran with $50 change fees. AirTran also ALLOWS same day stand-by still. In addition, AirTran allows you to upgrade ANY fare to business class including free tickets.
They're not fighting United and American -- they're fighting the discount carriers. More and more people are going to wise up and take the cheaper carriers.
When I fly three round trips on AirTran on 500 mile hopes I get a free round trip on AirTran that I can upgrade to Business class.
Out of Atlanta, AirTran will purchase my free ticket on Delta in exchange for two AirTran free trip vouchers.
And AirTran has remained profitable while Delta has lost money.
I love Delta, but they're being boneheads. When are the majors going to realize that travelers are smart and businesses are tight on money? As they make flying harder and harder it makes me want to find other ways to conduct business.
Bad Delta, bad . . .
(edited because I should have used spell check -- writing and being upset may lead to headaches and spelling errors
)
[This message has been edited by JoeFlyer (edited 09-05-2002).]
Delta really can't think straight. They're surrounded by Southwest and AirTran with $50 change fees. AirTran also ALLOWS same day stand-by still. In addition, AirTran allows you to upgrade ANY fare to business class including free tickets.
They're not fighting United and American -- they're fighting the discount carriers. More and more people are going to wise up and take the cheaper carriers.
When I fly three round trips on AirTran on 500 mile hopes I get a free round trip on AirTran that I can upgrade to Business class.
Out of Atlanta, AirTran will purchase my free ticket on Delta in exchange for two AirTran free trip vouchers.
And AirTran has remained profitable while Delta has lost money.
I love Delta, but they're being boneheads. When are the majors going to realize that travelers are smart and businesses are tight on money? As they make flying harder and harder it makes me want to find other ways to conduct business.
Bad Delta, bad . . . (edited because I should have used spell check -- writing and being upset may lead to headaches and spelling errors
)[This message has been edited by JoeFlyer (edited 09-05-2002).]
Sep 5, 2002, 10:13 pm
#90
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: DeltaLand, USA
Posts: 877
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JoeFlyer:
In addition, AirTran allows you to upgrade ANY fare to business class including free tickets.
[This message has been edited by JoeFlyer (edited 09-05-2002).]</font>
In addition, AirTran allows you to upgrade ANY fare to business class including free tickets.
[This message has been edited by JoeFlyer (edited 09-05-2002).]</font>
"Business Class upgrades are available for sale for $35 over the full one-way coach fare for nonstop flights and $70 over the full one-way coach fare for connecting flights, and are not available for discounted fares."
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by JoeFlyer:
Out of Atlanta, AirTran will purchase my free ticket on Delta in exchange for two AirTran free trip vouchers.
[This message has been edited by JoeFlyer (edited 09-05-2002).]</font>
Out of Atlanta, AirTran will purchase my free ticket on Delta in exchange for two AirTran free trip vouchers.
[This message has been edited by JoeFlyer (edited 09-05-2002).]</font>
------------------
I'm only here trying to shed light on DL issues brought up on this board. I do work for Delta, but I don't represent DL's final word when answering a question. Please e-mail Customer Care with your questions. www.delta.com/email
[This message has been edited by UnofficialDLHelper (edited 09-05-2002).]