Atlanta Airport Parking

 
Old Jun 20, 2002, 12:34 pm
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Atlanta Airport Parking

Recently discussed here.....

More than half of the Hartsfield International Airport parking spots closed for security reasons after Sept. 11 are reopening. The rest should reopen in August, after the airport has worked out a system for screening cars for bombs before they enter the third and fourth levels of the parking decks.

Full Story:
Close-in Hartsfield parking spots to reopen
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Old Jun 20, 2002, 7:05 pm
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As mentioned before, you can drive up to the terminal with "bad stuff", but you can not park in the parking garages that are 100's of feet away. It make no sense. None at all.

Paranoia. Covering your a*s decision making.

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Old Jun 20, 2002, 10:29 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NoStressHere:
As mentioned before, you can drive up to the terminal with "bad stuff", but you can not park in the parking garages that are 100's of feet away. It make no sense. None at all.</font>
It makes a lot of sense, so much so that the Fed govt and all affected local police municipalities, as well as all airports, are going along with it. I'm sorry that you are the one who disagrees with all these hard working citizens.

It is simply much more difficult to visually monitor the parking decks, yet keeping tabs on cars momentarily parked in front of a terminal is a relatively manageable task.

Do you fear walking a few extra 100 feet?

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Old Jun 20, 2002, 11:07 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jimpop:
...It is simply much more difficult to visually monitor the parking decks, yet keeping tabs on cars momentarily parked in front of a terminal is a relatively manageable task.
</font>
You are missing the point. If a vehicle drives up to the curb and pushes "the button", there is NOTHING TO MANAGE. It is all over. The police report would read something like " I saw this very suspicous vehicle drive up, and immediately began to call for support and then it blew up, driver and all...."

As to walking 100 feet... why should perfectly good parking spaces not be used? By the way, the Feds have allowed some (any?) cities to use these close in spaces if someone "looks" inside your vehicle as you drive in. Of course, they have no idea what is inside your packages, but they look anyways.
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Old Jun 20, 2002, 11:40 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NoStressHere:
You are missing the point. If a vehicle drives up to the curb and pushes "the button", there is NOTHING TO MANAGE. It is all over. The police report would read something like " I saw this very suspicous vehicle drive up, and immediately began to call for support and then it blew up, driver and all....".</font>
OKC (home-grown terroists) aside, the current modis operandi of extremists is just as NSH describes. Don't believe me? Review the news from the last 2 days.

Why we continue to allow ourselves to be inconvenienced for *no* net gain in safety is beyond me. Gotta keep those feds feeling useful in their jobs, I guess.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NoStressHere:
As to walking 100 feet... why should perfectly good parking spaces not be used? By the way, the Feds have allowed some (any?) cities to use these close in spaces if someone "looks" inside your vehicle as you drive in. Of course, they have no idea what is inside your packages, but they look anyways.</font>
Or under the car ... has any ever looked underneath?? Don't these idiots ever go to the movies??
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 12:09 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by NoStressHere:
[B] You are missing the point. If a vehicle drives up to the curb and pushes "the button", there is NOTHING TO MANAGE./B]</font>
I am not missing the point, you are changing the point. Not having cars parked at length near the terminal isn't to protect against something that could fit in an average car... it's to protect against a larger vehicle being parked for days until it is exploded at an opportune time. No one is saying that this is a complete security solution, it was just one small thing done to help manage a very difficult thing.

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Old Jun 21, 2002, 12:54 am
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The first two levels reopened Wednesday. And I don't think it is "missing the point" to remark that allowing people to drive up to the terminal doors unimpeded is just as risky, if not more so, than letting people park another 100 feet away in a concrete parking deck. Motorized vehicle proximity to the terminal is the same point, so it is not changing the point to discuss those vehicles parking near the terminal while at the same time discussing those vehicles driving near the terminal. In an age of suicide bombers, it makes no difference whether the driver is still with the car or not.

At any rate, the front rows of the ATL Gold lots are open again. Thank goodness.
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 1:09 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Robert Leach:
... it is not changing the point to discuss those vehicles parking near the terminal while at the same time discussing those vehicles driving near the terminal.</font>
Why then are the vehicles in the decks getting checked more thoroughly than those at the terminal? Here's why..... any bomb that can be delivered to the terminal doors could also be delivered more effectively in other places (sporting events, downtown, etc.) More thorough checks at the decks are meant to prevent larger explosions (think OK City), possibly involving multiple vehicles, than what you see suicide bombers doing. This is based on the methods and tactics used at Khobar Towers and at the US African Embassy bombings.

Why is this so hard to see?

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Old Jun 21, 2002, 5:18 am
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What special event would terrorists want to disrupt that would require their cars to sit around the airport for a few days in a parking lot? This would only deal with the home-grown (domestic) type. We only have had one major incident of that, and it focused on a government building. Yeah, I know an airport is owned by the government, but the difference is clear.

These guys are called suicide/homicide bombers for a reason. They could drive five minivans in a row that are laden down with explosives right up to the terminal, across the curbs, through the glass, into the counters, kapow, and that would be it.

They are evil and crazy. Do not ruin our lives with ineffective security. Look how much money they are spending/waisting just to put out "window dressing" security. It is largely a jobs program.

I will concede that there is middle ground. Perhaps they could walk bomb sniffing dogs around the parking decks. Otherwise, use all the parking decks.

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Old Jun 21, 2002, 6:40 am
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Even though I have too little self-control, I was more or less bragging to rssrsvp a couple of days ago about how I have resisted the impulse to engage in a useless dialogue with jimpop. Well, now I can't resist:

Did you notice a few posts back how he refers to government, law-enforcement and airport-security personnel as "hard-working citizens" -- conjuring up all of the warm and fuzzy feelings associated with that expression? I don't agree at all with that characterization. In my view -- and jimpop will be sure to disagree -- these people are just loving their greatest opportunity ever to bully travelers, who for years generally ignored security personnel, and otherwise engage in a sort of class warfare that only the blind can fail to see. If they are working hard, it's mostly to abuse us, not because of some marvelous dedication to "keeping us safe" -- and if I hear that expression one more time I may be ill.

Mindless obedience to authority is going to do more damage to America than the terrorists could ever do.

Bruce
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 6:58 am
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Jimpop - you would do well as a government official. You could put in a place a new rules like the following to make sure nothing can ever happen to anyone.

1 - No cars are allowed within 1000 feet of a terminal building. None are allowed to drive up. Buses, taxis, etc. are no longer allowed. WE WANT TO BE SAFE.

2 - You can only WALK to the terminal bldg.

3 - You can not take suitcases to the airport. They might have bombs.

4 - You must be naked since you could have bombs under your clothes. WE WANT TO BE SAFE.

With any luck, the economy of this country will spiral downwards and a few million more people will be out of work, all because someone MIGHT decide to hurt us. In the end, we are hurting ourselves even more than any terrorists could even begin to imagine. If someone could really document the losses this country has suffered SINCE 9/11 we would realize that we (Americans) have become the bad guys.
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 7:39 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jimpop:
More thorough checks at the decks are meant to prevent larger explosions (think OK City), possibly involving multiple vehicles, than what you see suicide bombers doing.

Why is this so hard to see?

</font>
Um, jim, OKC was deliverd not by parking in the deck ... but by driving up on the front
side of the bldg. (think driving up to the terminal) and walking away. So drive up not park close is the method used today. And often (think Middle East here) the driver isn't concerned with getting away like Timothy McV.

Why is that so hard for to see?

To be consistant we should check all vehicles approaching the terminal ... but it is just not practicle. Closing the garages was reactionary, and done by beurocrats who need to give the appearance of doing something, no matter how inane. Though Common sense should have returned long ago, let be thankful it returned at all ... there is an election coming up soon, you know.
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 7:41 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by jimpop:
This is based on the methods and tactics used at Khobar Towers and at the US African Embassy bombings.</font>
According to the FBI: Khobar Towers Release

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">At about 10:00 p.m. on June 25, 1996, a tanker truck loaded with at least 5,000 pounds of plastic explosives was driven into the parking lot in front of the Khobar Towers residential complex in Dhahran. Moments later a massive explosion sheared the face off of Building 131, an eight-story structure which housed about 100 U.S. Air Force personnel. Although rooftop sentries were immediately suspicious of the truck -- parked some 80 feet from the building -- and attempted an evacuation, few escaped.</font>
In other words, even though there were sentries watching, and even though they started evacuating the building, the attack was successful. And this was evacuating military personnel, not random air travellers (the ones who will stop to get their carry ons before evacuating burning aircraft!).

I will also note, this was an attack where the drivers of the truck jumped out and got into a getaway car being driven by accomplices. al-Qaeda doesn't worry about getting out of their vehicles before the explosion.
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 7:54 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:

Did you notice a few posts back how he refers to government, law-enforcement and airport-security personnel as "hard-working citizens" -- conjuring up all of the warm and fuzzy feelings associated with that expression? I don't agree at all with that characterization.
</font>
If they were so 'hard-wroking' 9/11 wouldn't have happened. Yea, I know, security was privately run before 9/11. But the same individauls are the ones who are now getting the federal welfare, er, paycheck for doing the same job ... poorly. In reward for their outstanding service the now get larger, federal paychecks and federal job protection (they're no 'at-will' employees anymore). What a way to encourage them ot be "hard-working" citizens.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bdschobel:

Mindless obedience to authority is going to do more damage to America than the terrorists could ever do.

Bruce
</font>
Envy/hatred of our way of life is why it is a target. Our way of life is exactly what they want to destroy. Not our buildings, not our airports, not even us, the poeple themselves are inconsequential ... irrelevant.

I, for one, am not willing to give it up just to remove the bulls-eye. If you really feel we should then you should go find the nearest dictatorship, where the total control of your life will, I'm sure, make you feel safe. Hey, America isn't for everyone.

edited to add a side comment: It amazes me that a Republican (you know, the smaller, less intrusive government party) is forming two new huge agencies ... the TSA and the HSA. Was'up with that?

[This message has been edited by theDeltaFlyer (edited 06-21-2002).]
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Old Jun 21, 2002, 7:59 am
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dupe

[This message has been edited by theDeltaFlyer (edited 06-21-2002).]
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