RPU - eBay

 
Old Jun 11, 01, 12:01 pm
  #1  
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RPU - eBay

Apologies in advance for the cross-post here and in The Buzz, but I think (thanks, scribbler)that this has relevance to both:

Prompted by Mileage Addict's recent thread about the ridiculous bids for mileage certs on eBay, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004695.html , I decided to take a look for myself. Curiosity got the better of me, and having never bid on anything on eBay, just for the fun of it I bid on a DL 500-mile cert. A few hours later I received the following e-mail from the DL Revenue Protection Unit:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To member: XXXXXX
From member: [email protected]
--------------------


Dear eBay user:

We would like to advise you that the sale, purchase or barter of mileage credit, vouchers, travel-related documents, Award Certificates and Award Tickets are prohibited and subjects the violator(s) to liability for damages and litigation and transaction costs. Improperly obtained Certificates/Tickets are VOID and will be confiscated. Persons trying to use such tickets must pay the applicable fare to Delta in order to travel. In addition, violators are subject to having their SkyMiles accounts terminated or deductions of mileage made from their accounts. For further information, please see our "about me" page on eBay at http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]

Sincerely,

Delta Air Lines, Inc.


--------------------
This email was sent by an eBay member via eBay's email forwarding system.
If you reply to the email, your response will go directly to the member and
not through eBay.

eBay does not tolerate spam (i.e., unsolicited commercial email) and is
taking steps to protect members from this abuse. In addition, solicitations
to buy or sell items outside of eBay violate eBay rules and are not covered
by services that protect members such as feedback, insurance, escrow, and
dispute resolution. If this is an offer to buy/sell items outside of eBay,
please do not participate. Enter the following link into your browser to learn more. Link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/email_info.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else received one of these warnings?

The Buzz thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/004698.html

{Edited to give the scribbler his due ]

[This message has been edited by cactuspete (edited 06-11-2001).]
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Old Jun 11, 01, 12:24 pm
  #2  
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I've looked at these auctions, but the closing prices are always ridiculous ... glad I didn't bid now

I've heard that UA will sometimes buy items off of Ebay to find out who was selling them ... and you can guess the rest

When you look at the prices that are being bid for these items, it's obvious that less experience persons that your average Flyertalker are bidding on them, so they may not even be aware they are breaking SkyMiles rules ...
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Old Jun 11, 01, 7:25 pm
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I suggested the cross-post.

Having read several Ebay threads in the United forum, I found it extremely interesting to see DL with an official prescence on Ebay (whereas it seems UAs is behind scenes, if at all) especially considering I can think of very little that DL gives me that I can sell (other than miles of course). I just mean that all of our upgrades are non-transferable.
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Old Jun 11, 01, 9:04 pm
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Don't the cops call that "entrapment"?
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Old Jun 11, 01, 9:53 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
Don't the cops call that "entrapment"?</font>
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring too, I assume UA buying stuff ...

Buying something that is already offered for sale in no way could be considered entrapment ...

Anyway, due process does not apply here ...
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Old Jun 11, 01, 11:37 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
Don't the cops call that "entrapment"?</font>
Not sure if you are talking about the UA deal or the DL deal. UA deal might be, but I think the law does hold if the person was not enticed or tricked.

As to Delta, they are just letting people know. Better to get a warning than get caught.
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Old Jun 11, 01, 11:41 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by mikey1003:
Don't the cops call that "entrapment"?</font>
No. Entrapment is not an issue when the entrapee initiates the transaction.
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Old Jun 12, 01, 2:26 am
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On this one I fully DL's position (and UA's of course). Before I joined flyertalk I knew this rule (as well as the fact that miles itself are non-transferrable). If you don't know it don't blame the airline. It's clearly stated and before you start selling your miles shouldn't at least check the rules? We always seem to check the rules to discover if one award is cheaper than the other, etc. I think the e-mail of Delta's RPU is still very friendly compared what they could do.

------------------
Cheers,

Brenno.
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Old Jun 12, 01, 5:31 am
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What I was talking about is that isnt it possible (probible) that DL posted the stuff on EBay to trap people into placing a bid?

How else would RPU know who to send an email too??
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Old Jun 12, 01, 6:58 am
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Mikey,

RPU knows who to email because when you bid, ebay posts your ebay nickname (they used to post your email add), and then anyone can email you by going thru ebays email service... which is what RPU does.

Of course, if you sell and dont have a DL account, or buy and dont have a DL account (or your dog buys/sells, etc.) then there is no way the RPU Dogs can do anything about it.

Of course, the primary concern of DL is how to get the fools that pay 3-4 cents/mile on ebay to come and buy them at that price directly from DL...

Of course, with only a few auctions going, for sure DL is spending more to pay the RPU Dogs to harass people than they are "saving" by "protecting" the skymiles program. Just dumb business.

my 2 cents (i'd give you my 2 miles but then the RPU would have to email everyone that has ever visited FT to beg them to refuse my 2 miles...). Oh, wait, i couldnt give any out anyway since I wouldnt join them anyway...
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Old Jun 12, 01, 7:26 am
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What is a 500 mile cert anyway? If this gets you 500 miles in your account, it seems silly to even buy it. That is worth about $20. Whoppeedeedoo!
I buy it, I send a check for it, spend postage, maybe I don't even get the cert. All for $20??

And that assumes I even use the miles.
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Old Jun 12, 01, 12:41 pm
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brenno, everybody knows that you are forbidden from selling miles from your account. I think that these mileage certs are a different animal. They technically are not "miles" until they are credited to a SkyMiles account. I don't see how DL is harmed by the sale of these certs - - DL has already been paid for the cert by the merchant or vendor that issued the cert.

nostresshere, I think that you vastly underestimate the number of infrequent flyers/"coupon clippers" who collect FF miles. To those folks, every mile counts. Although $20 for 1,000 miles may not ba a bargain, if you have no other way to get the last 1,000 miles for a free coach ticket for your a vacation that you would not otherwise be able to afford, then it's a steal.

tummyg, yes, that is obviously how RPU got my address. I wonder, though, if contacting a prospective purchaser is not in and of itself a violation of eBay's rules.
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Old Jun 12, 01, 1:08 pm
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Talked with a friend recently who use to work in the ATL CR, but has transferred to the RPU office. This friend told me the RPU office monitors e-bay on a regular basis. Also told me that passengers were not the only ones monitored by RPU, but they were also looking at Delta employees (selling buddy passes)...

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Old Jun 12, 01, 5:27 pm
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REPLY TO YOUR REPLY

...I don't see how DL is harmed by the sale of these certs - - DL has already been paid for the cert by the merchant or vendor that issued the cert.

&gt;&gt; Same as with Delta miles, we have actually "paid" for them already via flights. Part of the financial model is that people do not redeem them all. So, if you can sell or trade them, the redemption level goes up.


......I wonder, though, if contacting a prospective purchaser is not in and of itself a violation of eBay's rules.

Maybe, but anyone can email someone since the email is there. Who cares? Okay, I guess some people do, but I don't see the big harm.

Oh well,enough already,


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Old Jun 12, 01, 7:39 pm
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Those silly ebay users! Don't they know they can do a private auction? Then the bidders aren't visible.

Of course that wouldn't work if an insiders bids on the item.

My sociopathy coming thru!

Nobbi
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