law5

I have got to say, I am getting frustrated by all the folks who express outrage and anger about changes in the FF program, upgrades, L fares and the like. I am equally bothered by the changes - but folks, let's have a reality check. We all have an option, to leave DL and fly other airlines. If those who argue that they are leaving would do so, it would help all of us (and not just by freeing up more BE seats.)

I see absolutely nothing wrong with PMs and GMs telling Delta that they will take their business elsewhere - if they actually would do so. If you want to have impact on a business, make suggestions, make a decision, and then tell them the impact that you have had.

In my business (HR) we informed one particular headhunting agency that they're primary contact was annoying, unprofessional and that we no longer would do business with them. Guess what happened - after 2 months of not earning any money on our account, the area manger appeared to introduce a new rep. because he knew that we had used other agencies in town.

Personally, I made a decision almost 10 years ago to avoid AA whenever I can. Long story short - had a disasterous flight topped only by a series of apologetic letters that were fine until they nixed any hopes of FF mile compensation for my troubles. I told AA I was disappointed, I told them I would try not to fly them again, and I have flown other airlines whenever possible.

If the PMs would leave and then send their FF statements from NW, UA or AA showing all their miles, DL might really take notice.

Everyone should realize, for those of us that fly on business, FF miles and upgrades are kickback. A legal, politically correct version of a kickback, but a gift nonetheless. Could anyone even consider hearing someone say, "We are not going to buy from that supplier anymore because he stopped taking us out to lunch at Tavern on the Green." Or worse, "if that supplier makes me pay for the round of golf, they're through."

That said, once having recieved the "gift", it probably shouldn't be taken away. But is DL really taking away any on its gifts? In most cases, DL is simply saying that it is not going to give certain gifts in the future. OK. So now each of us can make an informed decision - is the change in the gift going to make us change our flying decisions.
If it does, have at another airline that better meets your needs.

JRF

Law 5, if you are tired of reading all of the gripes, don't read them.

law5

JRF - I think you missed my point. Posting boards like this are a great forum for discussion of ideas. My frustration, however, is with individuals who take the "I am being screwed" attitude but will not take any action to really change the situation. It too quickly becomes as sad as the folks who appear on talk shows to confront their spouse about cheating on them, but won't leave. The point is that if we are going to better society (even if it's only the microscopic corner that DLs FF program occupies) people will have to do more than talk to each other.

DLPlat BAGold

I agree with Law5. If you express dissatisfaction but DL doesn't incur any difference (financially) they feel no reparcussions. It is just someone blowing smoke. If people like uss fax in their change in flight schedules then DL may become aware of how much impact the changes are making.

The reduction of SWU's are important to me. I may significantly reduce my fligts on DL this coming year based solely on the reduction of SWU's. Have I taken action yet? No. But I plan to come mid November when work is significantly reduced. Once I intensely research the changes, I will be commenting to DL personel throughout ATL. Hopefully it will not be presented to mute ears.

DLPlat BAGold

davefr

I agree with some of what you say, but strongly disagree with your opinion that upgrades/FF points are "gift's" from the airline.

In virtualy all business's that I've been involved with, the customers that represent the highest revenue/margin get the best service. Service is not a "gift". It is earned by repeated loyalty to that business relationship. (in the case of the airline business model, service = upgraded seats, club memberships, and free trips)

DL seems to be falling into that dangerous area where they assume it's easier and less expensive to win a new customer than hang on to an existing one. This may come back to haunt them with a tad bit of softening in these unprecedented load factors.

I do agree that the ultimate recourse is voting with ones pocketbook but in the case of DL, in not sure this "elite" revolt has even made it too Uncle Leo's radar screen yet. It'll be interesting to see if they really do care.

I'll make PM on Wed. After that, if DL ever denies me an upgrade to F, I'll simply take my full fare Y ticket and walk over to AA due to their superior coach seat pitch or NW due to their connect first fares. I'm certainly not going to sit in DL's steerage section given better choices.

JRF

LAW 5, I understand now your point and agree. I have reduced my travel from 75% on DL to about 30% on DL (domestic), and will look at doing the same on international next year.

lonman

isn't this a forum? people should be able to express their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with things. no one should be able to edit what another person has to say in this environment. if they could, they could edit the post from the individual that has a differing opinion from the rest, merely because it is unpopular. in that case, this forum wouldn't exist because this topic would have been banned, as it is an unpopular sentiment.

if you have the right to complain about the complaining, then others have the right to complain in general.

[This message has been edited by lonman (edited 10-31-2000).]

haole

complain yes,but to keep beating a dead horse gets old,as the man says,if you dont like it just take your business elsewhere.

opus17

I'm in the middle of a $2300 round trip... on United. My little protest.

hfly

I like the way that the new guys on the board are so vocal about this issue. If they were to read all the related threads about this subject, they would see that many people are already exploring other options than Delta, and are going to bolt if there is no change.

Would these posters be trying to dissuade other new visitors from voicing their opinion? I wonder why that would be? Are they trying to start a flame war, do they not want to hear dissent against DL on these boards? I wonder what the real reasons are??? (Spoken by one who has amassed top tier status on two other carriers and alliances due to various DL changes over the last year or so).

billlwr30

Ahh, the United States of America. The land of free speech. Where I have the right to whine, scream, and cry about anything I want. Of course, you have the right not to like it.

Spiff

My take on the whining is this: I'm whining because I really don't want to leave Delta. I am hoping that Delta will see this and that others will see this and realize that the Benefits Downgrade 2001 + L/U non-upgradable fares = a sub-par FF program. I would like to express my disatisfaction in some other way than flying on other, less attractive carriers. If that fails, I'll continue diverting some of my business to other carriers and ask for status comps. As a last resort, I'll leave. One doesn't want to play all one's aces right away.

------------------
Time..... is on my side.

the scribbler

Well said Spiff.

The moment we stop talking about this is the same moment I'll be postive we won't get anywhere with Delta. Yes, law5 is correct we must speak with our wallets, but it is also important to keep the dialogue going here--espeically for the people who are just finding this site each day.

Perhaps we should all start mentioning in this thread (or a new seperate one) the amount of money and individual trips we've sched on other carriers because of this. Thoughts on that?

FlyingRev

I have left, and now am on my way to United 1k. Delta has lost one of their most loyal flyers and evangelists. To think of the numbers of people I talked into becoming Delta flyers.

It is their right to change the program, and to restructure their alliances, but it is also my right to vote with my feet.

JS

Whining and moaning about a particular business (in a competitive environment) is not how an efficient economy operates. A competitive, capitalist-based economy operates at maximum efficiency because dollars have the strongest incentive to producers; more incentive than any amount of government prodding or complaint letters could ever hope for.

Delta has you hooked, addicted, quarantined, (fill in your favorite phrase)!! That is the PURPOSE of a FF program -- to get you to fly that one airline all the time, instead of splitting up your business among multiple carriers.

When Delta sees how much trouble people are spending writing letters (threatening to leave, when DL knows very few will follow through), setting up web sites to collect comments and sign a petition, and so on, they're having a party! Their FF program has succeeded! Why? Because if it wasn't a success, bookings would be dropping, and a DL management meeting re FF program would be in order to decide what kind of improvements would be necessary.


Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you shouldn't complain or post here (isn't posting opinions a given?). Just MHO about "loyalty programs" in general, and FF programs in particular.