Is using nested tickets illegal?
 

Is the following scenario illegal?

Mon morning - PHL->ATL on part 1/2 of tix A
Mon evening - ATL->PHL on pt 1/2 of tix B

Tue morning - PHL->ATL on pt 2/2 of tix B
Tue evening - ATL->PHL on pt 2/2 of tix A

I'm looking to do some segment runs for Silver/Gold medallion, but don't want to get flagged as doing something illegal. If the fares permitted return on the same day, and I could get all of the flights in, would that also be legal/illegal?

Thanks.

Jeff

You will be flagged by their RPU on this one. I even discussed this exact type of booking with a friend at a CTO and was warned against doing it.

I would look for a better segment run that is legal. You have the web sale from Philadelphia going on that can be purchased until 12/7.From To Sale Fare Online Fare
Philadelphia (PHL) Atlanta (ATL) $134 $128
Philadelphia (PHL) Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW) $238 $227
Philadelphia (PHL) Fort Lauderdale (FLL) $128 $122
Philadelphia (PHL) Fort Myers (RSW) $144 $137
Philadelphia (PHL) Greensboro (GSO) $144 $137
Philadelphia (PHL) Memphis (MEM) $154 $147
Philadelphia (PHL) Miami (MIA) $144 $137
Philadelphia (PHL) New Orleans (MSY) $144 $137
Philadelphia (PHL) Orlando (MCO) $128 $122
Philadelphia (PHL) Raleigh/Durham (RDU) $144 $137
Philadelphia (PHL) Savannah (SAV) $144 $137
Philadelphia (PHL) Tampa (TPA) $118 $113

Also, have you considered one of the web specials to Amsterdam, Nice or Milan that are about $300 and will bring to you mucho miles instead of the segments.
http://www.delta.com/travel/sp_offer...1204/index.jsp

I did Amsterdam last December and had a blast!

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 12-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 12-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 12-04-2000).]

Thanks for the info. I did find that a couple of the east coast destinatins I was looking (ATL,TPA,MCO) don't require an overnight stay for their discounted fare, so I could make a full trip in one day (2 in 2 days) without having to nest tickets.

I'm doing PHL-ATL-ZRH 12/6-12/11, so I'll have 4 of 12 segments I'd need towards Gold. An international trip adds miles, but it's typically only 2 segments, plus it's a multi-day affair. I need something with a quicker turnaround. Plus, I don't have any more weekends left for travel, which really limits what I can do.

I can do 2 one-day trips next week for about $140-$150 each. That gets me to Gold. Then I'd only need one more online booked-flight by the end of December for the 10k web bonus.

Question regarding nesting: Suppose I did PHL-ATL in the morning, and ATL-PHL late in the evening. Would an ATL-xxx trip in the afternoon be illegal (if woud be a separate ticket.

Jeff

I would think that it is legal, however you might seek the advise of some of the others on the board. Be careful for how much time you are allowing for your connections, and don't forget about the 300 flights that were cancelled this weekend. It looks like it will be a long December.

By the way, the type of ticket that you were originally looking to book are called "back to back".

[This message has been edited by Rssrsvp (edited 12-04-2000).]

I'm pretty sure that's OK. You can also do what many people call circle trips. That is A to B then B to C and C to A where you need a Sat nite stay and it happens some time during the itenerary. For example fly A to B Sat morning. B to C Sat nite and C to A Sun morning. Most of the time it works. I do that often for business trips. If I have an appointment on Monday I can fly somewhere on Friday for the weekend and then on to the meeting on Sunday for a lot less than full fare. It saves my company money and I get a free ski day or two.

[This message has been edited by neverhome (edited 12-05-2000).]

If you use all portions of both trips, why shouldn't it be legal?

Fly to LAS for Comdex. Wanted to spend Sunday in LAX, and flew back. So overall on my comdex trip, I've been in LAX 4 times. Twice on my way to/from LAS, and for that Sunday. Was on different tickets, since that trip back to LAX was personal and had nothing to do with my business.

I have been told by my DL sales rep that SPLIT tickets are illegal, and could be cancelled.

I do not know of ANYONE that has ever had them cancelled.

Not sure if that helps.

From the Delta website:
However, I know of several Europeans who make it common practice to use one coupon each from two round-trip tickets whenever they have to visit the U.S. on short notice, or not stay over a weekend.

The bottom line is that this is illegal in DL's, and for that matter, all airline policies that I know of. There's been a lot of stories recently, including one her in the DL forum, that made the news. DL has one department in where all they do is look for scenarios like these. Why take the chance? If they catch you (and it could be weeks later), you lose the miles, and the status you've gained, and are subject to losing membership in the program. I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is.

Instead of going back to PHL on part 1/2 of ticket B, go someplace else. There is nothing wrong with doing an end-to-end as long as you meet the minimum stay requirements. So, try:

Mon morning - PHL->XXX on part 1/2 of tix A
Mon evening - XXX->YYY on pt 1/2 of tix B

Tue morning - YYY->XXX on pt 2/2 of tix B
Tue evening - XXX->PHL on pt 2/2 of tix A

where XXX is ATL or some such place and YYY is anywhere cheap with no minimum stay requirement that is not ATL or PHL. I assume that your previously proposed PHL-ATL has no more than a 1 night minimum stay requirement?

Comments? Russ?


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Time..... is on my side.

What Spiff suggests is perfectly legal.

BTW, back-to-back tickets on different airlines is not illegal.

Mon morning - PHL->ATL on DL
Mon evening - ATL->PHL on US

Tue morning - PHL->ATL on US
Tue evening - ATL->PHL on DL

That doesn't help the original poster in terms of a mileage run, but might be useful for someone in the future.

I wonder abour this scenario?

I am flying fram A to B on Monday with a return on Friday. I have a relative in C that I want to visit and I buy a separate ticket B to C leaving on Thursday and returning on Friday just in time to catch my flight back from B to A?

Is that nested ticketing, or is it OK?

/Pete

Looks just fine to me. See my example above and substitute A for PHL, B for XXX, C for YYY, and adjust the dates accordingly.



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Time..... is on my side.

For discussion purposes, what event triggers a ticket being 'back to back'? Is is when I use a 2nd ticket to return to my original destination, or that I don't use the 2nd parts of my two tickets? Most of the references I've seen in the past with back to back tickets have been either in just throwing away the 2nd halves of the tickets, or in trying to change the dates on those portions. I wouldn't be doing either.

On another tangient, does anyone know of a way to get delta.com to accept flights with minimum turnaround time? I'm trying to do the initerary suggested above (PHL->XXX, XXX->YYY, YYY->XXX, XXX->PHL), but within one day. Each flight I want to be 2 segments, and there are no minimim stay requirements.
The PHL-XXX flights are no problem, because it's typically the first and last flights of the day. I'm having problems with the inner flights (XXX-YYY). It lets me (individually) choose all the flights, but at the end of the 4th segment, it says I am doing a triple connection, which is not supported.
The only thing I could think of (and also saw) is it looked like there needed to be at least a 3-4 hr gap for the turnaround flight (ie. basically a stopover). Anything shorter it seems to be picking up as just another flight segment, which I don't want.
I've found a few itineraries that would work time-wise, but I don't have enough gap between the flights for them to be bookable on delta.com. I haven't checked if Expedia or similar would let me do it, because in addition to the 8-segment run I'm trying to do, I'm also trying for the 10,000 mile bonus for booking 3 flights.

FYI the best flights I've found so far is PHL-MCO at $137 r/t, no minimum stay. $411 would get you 20k miles (7k flight, 3k book, 10k bonus) plus Gold status. This would need 3 travelling days, but no overnight stays.

Jeff

The first scenario is "back-to-back", going back to the origin w/another ticket on the same airline before completing the first trip. The second is called "throwaway ticketing" Since both are usually used to circumvent minimum stay requirements, e.g. a Saturday night stay, both are illegal under Delta's contract of carriage.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jwhite4:
For discussion purposes, what event triggers a ticket being 'back to back'? Is is when I use a 2nd ticket to return to my original destination, or that I don't use the 2nd parts of my two tickets? Most of the references I've seen in the past with back to back tickets have been either in just throwing away the 2nd halves of the tickets, or in trying to change the dates on those portions. I wouldn't be doing either.

You'll have to break it up into two itineraries if you want to do it on the web site (and get an extra 1000 booking bouns miles). Otherwise, you'll have to use an agent, forfeit 1 booking bonus, and probably attract the unwanted attention of the Revenue Protection Nazis who will accuse you of an extra-segments-itinerary-designed-to-get-more-miles-and-screw-Leo's-kids-out-of-new-Porsches-for-Christmas crime.

another tangient, does anyone know of a way to get delta.com to accept flights with minimum turnaround time? I'm trying to do the initerary suggested above (PHL->XXX, XXX->YYY, YYY->XXX, XXX->PHL), but within one day. Each flight I want to be 2 segments, and there are no minimim stay requirements.
The PHL-XXX flights are no problem, because it's typically the first and last flights of the day. I'm having problems with the inner flights (XXX-YYY). It lets me (individually) choose all the flights, but at the end of the 4th segment, it says I am doing a triple connection, which is not supported.
The only thing I could think of (and also saw) is it looked like there needed to be at least a 3-4 hr gap for the turnaround flight (ie. basically a stopover). Anything shorter it seems to be picking up as just another flight segment, which I don't want.
I've found a few itineraries that would work time-wise, but I don't have enough gap between the flights for them to be bookable on delta.com. I haven't checked if Expedia or similar would let me do it, because in addition to the 8-segment run I'm trying to do, I'm also trying for the 10,000 mile bonus for booking 3 flights.



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Time..... is on my side.