Big Refund problem
 

Any opinions, ideas???
Sorry, this is a long one...

In March I flew to Madrid on DL in Business. Five days later I had to fly back to the US (Miami in fact), I only found this out at 4AM local time. I tried calling Res. in Spain but they were closed at the time. I decided to go straight to the airport in the morning (I was on the Portuguese border at the time).

I showed at the airport two hours before the flight and wanted to buy a B class and use a systemwide to upgrade. I was told that the flight was overbooked and nothing was available. I found the station manager and explained the situation, I even said that I would buy a Bus ticket, he said that it was ok and that I would have to buy a full ticket going and discounted business on the way back. He authorized the ticket desk to do this.

I explained to the woman that I wanted to stop in NY on the way back for a day and that I wanted to return to Istanbul. She said that she could not do that as there was no time to do it and instead that I should either change or refund the ticket and buy a new one for the return, I said fine.

By the way, she booked NY as a connection, not a stopover, more on this later.

Flew to Miami, overnighted in NY due to a missed connection.

In Miami I called the Medallion number and asked what I should do to return to Istanbul. I was told that they could either change it or buy another ticket and refund the old one. I also found out that I could buy a B class one way for $600 from NY(and use a systemwide, would have been $650 or so from Miami, but I was told that this was not necessary as my ticket broke in NY on the way back), while my current return ticket was $1200. Great. I was told that I could use my current ticket to NY, and there I could buy, refund etc at a tk office or the airport. Great.

I went to NY for a day and to the DL office where I did everything as instructed (i.e. put the old ticket in for a refund and purchased a new ticket).

Flew to Istanbul. No Problem.

A month later I was refunded $73.

I wrote customer service. They investigated and confirmed this. I e-mailed again and asked where my $1150 or so was. They needed to investigate.

A week later I got an e-mail from a manager who stated that I was correct and I would receive $1163 and change on my next cc statement. Great.

A month later, new cc statement. No credit.

New e-mail to DL. They said it sometimes takes two CC statements. OK.

New cc statement, No credit.

New e-mail, it may take one more statement. Angry, but ok.

New statement, no credit. Pissed off.

New e-mail, no response.

So I called the refund dept. and was told by a very nasty man that I deserve no more refund, and more or less that I am trying to screw DL. Furthermore, that he does not believe that anyone could have promised me a refund. He said that they charged me the Miami portion at over $1000 and I have to live with it. When I told him that I was o0nly doing as instructed, he said flat out that he did not believe me. When I explained that had this indeed been the case I could have bought the B ticket for about $50 more and have flown from Miami, he didn't care.

Now, I have flown over 300,000 actual miles on DL in the last 2.5 years. Im PM, etc, etc. Most of my flying is Premium, full whack kind of stuff. I do not even get a chance to use all my systemwides, I rarely use my miles (once in 10 years). I'm a real big DL supporter and have even taken screwy routes in order to fly DL. How can they treat me like this?

Any suggestions????

Others on here will probably be better giving you advice, but here is what I have learned about business:

You talk to 10 different CSR's and you'll get 10 different replies, some very helpful, some not helpful at all. You want the one CSR that will be most helpful, obviously your last CSR contact was not. So, try again and hope you get someone more willing to help. Eventually, you should find a CSR willing to abide by the promised refund.

One thought: Especially with airlines, when speaking on the phone, agents often say they will do something, then, it never happens(don't know why, maybe after I hang up, they hit the delete button by mistake??). For less than $100 you can by a digital phone recorder and record on your computer, every incoming/outgoing call. This way, you will have a record of what was promised should there be a doubt. This is one thing I very much intend to buy in the near future.

For less than $100 you can by a digital phone recorder and record on your computer, every incoming/outgoing call.

under swiss law I can only record tf calls after my tf-partner formally agrees/agreed being recorded. How is that in North-America?

in virtually every case, both parties on the telephone must agree to recording a phone conversation in the united states (there are exceptions).

tell the agent that you are recording the call and ask them if it is all right with them. once they agree, ask the agent for the date and time where they are located (that way there will not be an argument when you say "i was told on june 30 . . ."). you would obviously have to repeat all this if you are switched to a supervisor to obtain that person's permission to record the conversation.

incidentally, you can make the recording without having to ask permission if your recorder has the "15 second recording beep". for example, when you call your local police department, they record all calls. naturally they do not stop to ask your permission. instead, that beep on the line every 15 seconds is your reminder that the phone conversation is being recorded.

if your system has that beep signal, you do not need to request permission, period.

Is it too late to dispute the charge with your credit card company? Get their heft behind you?

Amex has been very helpful with me in "suggesting" to UA that they should move faster with a refund.

Greg

Have you saved these e-mails? You may have last spoken to someone who considers customers "enemies."

Sorry, but whether or not u have a 15 second beep on your phone to remind u of recording a conversation it still by law illegal if the other party is unaware or does not consent to being recorded. The police do it for our safety. I dont think that u can compare this situation to a 911 emergency call!!!????/// http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

If something like this were to go to court the tape recording would not even be considered as evidence due to not having consent from the other party or not telling them they were being recorded.

Your best option is to do the Credit Card Dispute....something along the same lines happened last year to me and I disputed it and won so go with the dispute and get your money quicker http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif good luck

Actually, you're incorrect DLGirl. See http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Ca...ts/record.html for information on interstate calls, for which this law would apply. I've had this book marked for a long time, so it was easy to bring up.

More importantly, to bring this back to the original post, it would be great if you could give some non-official DL advice on how to handle the orginal complaint hfly brought up. What would you suggest, working for DL?

Update everyone....

I have received a reply from the original customer service person. He has stated that the refund department does not concur that I should get a refund. He and his superiors do not agree with refunds. Instead of waiting for a long protracted settlement, he has proposed that customer service issue me a voucher for the same amount that can be used for future travel on Delta.

I would definately use such a voucher, the question is however that I have been waiting for over 4 months for this refund and belive that a voucher is worse less than cash. What amount can I ask for and reasonably expect to receive??

Any opinions...

By the way, I have all of my previous e-mails archived.

Well first off, if someone taped me and I did not know about it I would sue. that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. That is a violation of my privacy and my rights as a human being.

But I will definitely check out that link u put on there. Very interesting. Anyway yeah right back to the real subject at hand I say keep trying go through customer care or directly to a CTO and get the refund done.

I mean it is unfortunate that u hear different stories but we dont always know both sides of the story and what was dicussed. But going through Delta is effective (eventually)or yeah dispute it with your CC company b/c if u have a good one they will fight Delta for u and u wont have to do a thing.

[This message has been edited by Dlgrl71 (edited 06-22-2000).]

hfly, similiar incident happened to me, but the delta agent who called me was very nice and apologetic. He gave me a refund, and $100.00 voucher, then i asked him amicably, since i had to go through a lot of trouble to get their attention, plus having waited for a year for him to finally call me, wasn't there something else extra he could do? after learning that i was a PM, he then immediately added 10,000 bonus miles to my account.... case closed, and i was a loyal delta customer again... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
see, it doesn't take much to keep ur flyer happy, delta! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Thanks for the info, I read it and here is the key:
"The FCC also receives many inquiries regarding the interception and recording of telephone conversations. To the extent these conversations are radio transmissions, there would be no violation of Section 705 if there were no divulgence or beneficial use of the conversation."

So I conclude, the law does permit you to record your calls if you keep the records secure and private, which I intend to do.
I would only playback the call in the event a disupute arrised, and then, only replay for the party involved.


[This message has been edited by Aubie (edited 06-22-2000).]

Interesting FCC site!

Aubie - I don't read the language the way you do.

I read the Commission Staff's interpretation to say that the interception of radio e.g., cellular or cordless telephone, transmitted conversations is not a violation of Sec. 705.

Further up in the section, the Factsheet says:

This is a different kettle of fish from recording a telephone call being made over a landline (normal) telephone. For that sort of situation, it seems that you should refer to the originally posted factsheet, which says, in part:

This is tricky stuff. Ask Linda Tripp. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Greg

yes, it is a tricky kettle of fish.

when you ask linda tripp, you will find she did not obtain verbal/written consent to record. you will also find that she did not have the automatic beep signal. the combination of those two was her downfall. as the fcc has said, the automatic, periodic beep tone is sufficient.

if you think it is not, anyone may file suit (i suppose there is a lawyer who would handle the case). filing a suit and winning it are two different items.

and, once a "landline" telephone call goes through a microwave relay tower, it becomes a radio signal. and then the radio signal portion applies.

incidentally, exceptions exist to everything. you will notice the fcc is discussing interstate telephonic transmissions. if a conversation were to take place entirely within one state, then the federal law may not apply and the parties may be subject to the differing laws for each state.