Air France Sucks
#91
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,681
as a true francophile, i must say i agree with most comments herein about af. they are a lousy partner for dl, but then again, in the context of the industry, no surprise. i definitely avoid them whever possible. used to have the same feeling about lh, but after flying around on lh when i had no choice, i was really surprised to see that they are really quite good.
#92
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Originally Posted by Cholula
At least someone can decipher my jokes around here......
All I can say is that I must be flying a different airline than the Air France described by most posters on this thread.
#93
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Originally Posted by jimrpa
Sorry about that. The sad thing is, that's what I'd expect of most Americans travelling overseas. Most Americans I've met overseas seem to be focussed on whining that the "natives" don't speak English and looking for the nearest American chain restaraunt (McDonalds, TGI Fridays, or what have you).
No problem, jimrpa. I guess you've got to look at the various posts here in context to who's doing the posting. You've been around FT a lot longer than I have so no sense in telling you something you already know.
Most of the FF's in this Forum are pretty savvy travelers and I don't think many are the Ugly Americans that many amateur travelers are accused of being.
Some of us are spoiled and feel we are due some sense of entitlement because of our mileage totals. I certainly belong in that category but, at the same time, I'm a very aware, observant and courteous traveler and don't expect folks in foreign countries to bow and scrape because I'm an American.
#94
Join Date: Aug 2004
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don't expect folks in foreign countries to bow and scrape because I'm an American
That is very magnanimous of you!!!!
#95
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Originally Posted by IRISHFLYER1
That is very magnanimous of you!!!!
Plus I'm quite humble.....
#96
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
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Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
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Originally Posted by Cholula
I'm a magnanimous kind of guy.
Plus I'm quite humble.....
Plus I'm quite humble.....
#97
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I'm Not In Canarsie's League But I'll Give It A Shot....
Originally Posted by Canarsie
One has to lava guy like Cholula, who is one of those magmanimous guys who, without FlyerTalk to express their frustrations and feelings, would simply explode if they are not given a chance to interupt the discussion...
I do get steamed up around here sometimes and find I occasionally have to vent or else I'd be tempted to kick somebody's ash.
#98
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Deep in the heart of...DL country.
Programs: DL GM
Posts: 3,838
Originally Posted by JRF
Sort of correct, in France, the louder you yell, the meaner and nastier you are, the more you are respected. In most other countries this is not true. So, don't quite be so fast to jump on the original poster.
I am always astonished by the number of Americans who travel to France without making any effort to learn about French etiquette or even to memorize a few phrases in French. Do they really expect everyone in France to be fluent in English? Are most Americans fluent in French (or Japanese, or any other language) just because we have a lot of foreign tourists coming to see Disney World or NYC or the Grand Canyon?
Last edited by Tennisbum; Apr 2, 2005 at 7:44 am Reason: punctuation
#99
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,343
Although I have been actively boycotting AF for several years for lots of reasons:
1) CDG impossible to connect in with any type of tight connection <90 minutes. Worse when you miss the connection, typical scenario for 90 minute connection......plane lands 10 minutes late, taxis out to the farthest possible remote stands, blows another 15 minutes doing so, bus doesn't show up for 10 minutes, another 10 minutes blown as either the bus waits until grandmother in the back of the plane comes limping onto bus or worse the idiot dispatcher holds the first bus until aforesaid grandmother gets onto SECOND bus! 10 minutes to terminal. You blow another 20 minutes waiting for transfer bus (either running very slow or behind line of several hundred other people waiting for same bus), 10 minutes to your terminal (yes I know how to walk and avoid these last two steps, however depending on connections and passport control it is not always that advantageous). Arrive at gate appx 15 minutes before flight to be told by idioty Brinks security person that it is now too late to go thorugh security and that you should have come to the airport earlier!!! What makes this scenario worse, and trust me permutations of this scenario have happened to me at CDG at least a dozen times, is that when one then ends up at the connection desk, 1) In every case they pull up the fact that the plane landed on or close to on time, and refuse responsibility, 2) That even if they take responsibility they try to shirk their responsibility by either trying to make you pay to a higher class - if you were in economy - by always claiming that the next flight is sold out, 3) They never want to put you in a hotel, and 4) They always refure to FIM you to another carrier. This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME.
What is even worse is that in every single experience of this system I get everything that I deserve after arguing for at least a half an hour (in French for you arm chair internationalists who think that all perceived evils of AF are based on the lack of French knowledge). It is just exasperating.
2) AF lost my luggage so many times that it became a running joke between myself and their luggage agents in CDG, LHR and IST. As a matter of fact one of my bags went missing 5 years ago and has not been seen since, neither have they still settled the matter.
3) Wine is great, many airlines serve it, some better than others, Af has some good wines and some bad ones. Sometimes I like to drink something really exotic, like SPRITE, or Rum. Perhaps a scotch othar that the TWO which they stock. Maybe I'd even like an Orangina on shorthaul. None of this is possible on AF. While on the food and wine subject I'd love to have a biz meal that was not ice or burned (as was often my experience with AF.
OK, i am not going to go on, it makes me too crazy.
Last word on the subsidy thing however. AF has enjoyed a level of subsidy and government support which is unknown to any other airline in the world. That $4-5 billion referenced above was just a LAST TIME subsidy. It is estimated that in the previous two decades that AF received appx. $12 BILLION (anyone remember their huge losses in the late 80's? Getting their @ss handed to them by Sabena? Etc.?). On top of that AF received tacit backing from the government to become national champion and was able to suck up almost all the rest of the national industry, yes Ryanscare etc. may compete around Europe, however for the last decade or so AF has been able to absorb or bankrupt every single competitor that it had. On top of that one can also include the fact that many security costs have always been eaten by other entities other than AF.
1) CDG impossible to connect in with any type of tight connection <90 minutes. Worse when you miss the connection, typical scenario for 90 minute connection......plane lands 10 minutes late, taxis out to the farthest possible remote stands, blows another 15 minutes doing so, bus doesn't show up for 10 minutes, another 10 minutes blown as either the bus waits until grandmother in the back of the plane comes limping onto bus or worse the idiot dispatcher holds the first bus until aforesaid grandmother gets onto SECOND bus! 10 minutes to terminal. You blow another 20 minutes waiting for transfer bus (either running very slow or behind line of several hundred other people waiting for same bus), 10 minutes to your terminal (yes I know how to walk and avoid these last two steps, however depending on connections and passport control it is not always that advantageous). Arrive at gate appx 15 minutes before flight to be told by idioty Brinks security person that it is now too late to go thorugh security and that you should have come to the airport earlier!!! What makes this scenario worse, and trust me permutations of this scenario have happened to me at CDG at least a dozen times, is that when one then ends up at the connection desk, 1) In every case they pull up the fact that the plane landed on or close to on time, and refuse responsibility, 2) That even if they take responsibility they try to shirk their responsibility by either trying to make you pay to a higher class - if you were in economy - by always claiming that the next flight is sold out, 3) They never want to put you in a hotel, and 4) They always refure to FIM you to another carrier. This happens EVERY SINGLE TIME.
What is even worse is that in every single experience of this system I get everything that I deserve after arguing for at least a half an hour (in French for you arm chair internationalists who think that all perceived evils of AF are based on the lack of French knowledge). It is just exasperating.
2) AF lost my luggage so many times that it became a running joke between myself and their luggage agents in CDG, LHR and IST. As a matter of fact one of my bags went missing 5 years ago and has not been seen since, neither have they still settled the matter.
3) Wine is great, many airlines serve it, some better than others, Af has some good wines and some bad ones. Sometimes I like to drink something really exotic, like SPRITE, or Rum. Perhaps a scotch othar that the TWO which they stock. Maybe I'd even like an Orangina on shorthaul. None of this is possible on AF. While on the food and wine subject I'd love to have a biz meal that was not ice or burned (as was often my experience with AF.
OK, i am not going to go on, it makes me too crazy.
Last word on the subsidy thing however. AF has enjoyed a level of subsidy and government support which is unknown to any other airline in the world. That $4-5 billion referenced above was just a LAST TIME subsidy. It is estimated that in the previous two decades that AF received appx. $12 BILLION (anyone remember their huge losses in the late 80's? Getting their @ss handed to them by Sabena? Etc.?). On top of that AF received tacit backing from the government to become national champion and was able to suck up almost all the rest of the national industry, yes Ryanscare etc. may compete around Europe, however for the last decade or so AF has been able to absorb or bankrupt every single competitor that it had. On top of that one can also include the fact that many security costs have always been eaten by other entities other than AF.
#100
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: Swiss TC; Miles & More; Mileage Plus; SkyMiles; AAdvantgage; Frequence Plus; Marriott Rewards
Posts: 33
af is funny
oh well i just have to add something to this thread. i can fully understand all the bizarre feelings towards af. this is because i flew on them and even more important work at check in for them. how can someone possably think that dl is worse than af. ok if everything works fine, af is ok (except cdg). they seem to like the glorious old days of air travel. this works exactly as long as their ops run smoothly. BUT when a delay occurs (due to wx or mx or whatever funny reason), hell breaks loose. of course one might argue this happens with every other airline. but based on my experience this is not the case. other airlines seem to handle problems far better than af. for example with 1inch of snow cdg is a mess while lh planes from muc and fra (with more snow on the same days) seem to operate quite on scheudle. on days with heavy delays i get to hear quite often from pax that îf we don't rebook/compensate them they are going to sue me (yes personally), jetaviation or af. it's so funny (i never laugh), because i'm studying law at university (doing check in part time). with this i just wanna say that if you check in other airlines you never face these problems because the airline is handling problems far better than af. and to finish this, dl is great (perhaps not so much service wise, but in general as a way of travelling from zrh to fll)
just a little anecdote: once we had the case that the CREW was late. they arrived 10min prior to std with shopping bags in their hands
just a little anecdote: once we had the case that the CREW was late. they arrived 10min prior to std with shopping bags in their hands
#101
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Posts: 12,400
Originally Posted by JetAviation
oh well i just have to add something to this thread. i can fully understand all the bizarre feelings towards af. this is because i flew on them and even more important work at check in for them. how can someone possably think that dl is worse than af. ok if everything works fine, af is ok (except cdg). they seem to like the glorious old days of air travel. this works exactly as long as their ops run smoothly. BUT when a delay occurs (due to wx or mx or whatever funny reason), hell breaks loose. of course one might argue this happens with every other airline. but based on my experience this is not the case. other airlines seem to handle problems far better than af. for example with 1inch of snow cdg is a mess while lh planes from muc and fra (with more snow on the same days) seem to operate quite on scheudle. on days with heavy delays i get to hear quite often from pax that îf we don't rebook/compensate them they are going to sue me (yes personally), jetaviation or af. it's so funny (i never laugh), because i'm studying law at university (doing check in part time). with this i just wanna say that if you check in other airlines you never face these problems because the airline is handling problems far better than af. and to finish this, dl is great (perhaps not so much service wise, but in general as a way of travelling from zrh to fll)
just a little anecdote: once we had the case that the CREW was late. they arrived 10min prior to std with shopping bags in their hands
just a little anecdote: once we had the case that the CREW was late. they arrived 10min prior to std with shopping bags in their hands
#102
In Memoriam
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CDG
Programs: I used to be Plat, but now I'm not. Now I'm just Gold. Lucky if I keep that.
Posts: 4,029
Originally Posted by JetAviation
oh well i just have to add something to this thread. i can fully understand all the bizarre feelings towards af. this is because i flew on them and even more important work at check in for them. how can someone possably think that dl is worse than af. ok if everything works fine, af is ok (except cdg). they seem to like the glorious old days of air travel. this works exactly as long as their ops run smoothly. BUT when a delay occurs (due to wx or mx or whatever funny reason), hell breaks loose. of course one might argue this happens with every other airline. but based on my experience this is not the case. other airlines seem to handle problems far better than af. for example with 1inch of snow cdg is a mess while lh planes from muc and fra (with more snow on the same days) seem to operate quite on scheudle. on days with heavy delays i get to hear quite often from pax that îf we don't rebook/compensate them they are going to sue me (yes personally), jetaviation or af. it's so funny (i never laugh), because i'm studying law at university (doing check in part time). with this i just wanna say that if you check in other airlines you never face these problems because the airline is handling problems far better than af. and to finish this, dl is great (perhaps not so much service wise, but in general as a way of travelling from zrh to fll)
just a little anecdote: once we had the case that the CREW was late. they arrived 10min prior to std with shopping bags in their hands
just a little anecdote: once we had the case that the CREW was late. they arrived 10min prior to std with shopping bags in their hands
Does your employer know that you're posting these types of comments about them on public bulletin boards?
#104
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: Swiss TC; Miles & More; Mileage Plus; SkyMiles; AAdvantgage; Frequence Plus; Marriott Rewards
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by dctorres
Does your employer know that you're posting these types of comments about them on public bulletin boards?
best regards
#105
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: Swiss TC; Miles & More; Mileage Plus; SkyMiles; AAdvantgage; Frequence Plus; Marriott Rewards
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by dctorres
Does your employer know that you're posting these types of comments about them on public bulletin boards?