JOUY31

As you are flying DL transatlantic, I guess your question relates to the CDG-LYS segment. Usually, you can upgrade full fare AF tickets with miles, but domestic flights are operated with a coach cabin only.

amenachem

I have only been to the business (Espace Affaires) lounge at 2F - it is nice enough - typical for Europe - snacks, drinks, newspapers but it can be quite crowded... In all, more food than in the US, less room. I suspect that the First Class (Espace Premier?) is considerably nicer, but alas, I have never been there...

RSSrsvp

JRF, I totally agree with your approach. If your boarding pass is issued by DL (AF codeshare), it will state your status. If it isn't then always insist on having them making a phone call to DL. Under no circumstances should a PM ever allow them to bully you and be refused entrance to their lounges.

remyontheroad

Wow.

Folks, I know it's fun to complain about the Cheese-Eating Surrender Monkeys but c'mon, fair is fair.

I've seen this board jump all over people for things like this before. The bottom line is that when you buy a tix, you agree to the terms. If you wanted a more flexible ticket, I'm sure that AF would be happy to sell it to you at a higher price.

Rules vary by region and airlines follow their rules and their competition. DL does it too. The rules are different if you buy your tix and originate overseas instead of stateside.

On what grounds where you denied, or better yet, on what grounds did you request entry? Your profile says GM, which is ST elite, not elite+ and not eligible for access. IS there more to this story?

I agree that AF's (and Frances in general) idea of customer service is pretty appalling if you're used to the American version. I've even written and *****ed about AF myself on this board, but I think you have to keep your experiences in perspective.

The main thing I've noticed is that AF cares much more about how much you are spending right now. Not in the past, not how much you've spent with their partners, now. If you are on a cheap ticket, you will often get the bare minimum in terms of service, but on the other hand if you are paying more, you get much more attentive service, much better food and better treatment from FAs.

And while we're at it, their planes are in much better shape than DLs - Newer, cleaner and more comfortable food is much better, drinks are free and many of their long haul flights have seatback IFE in coach, which is sorely missing on DL.

Every one of us has had frustrating experiences with AF as well as countless airilines. DL has great some of the best CS people I've ever met, and some of the worst. Read the thread about ASA. Or the call center in India.

The complaint about not letting people in without credentials is a valid one, though when I was in that exact situation, I had a very nice AF check-in agent look me up, check in with a supervisor and get me a lounge pass. As far as some of these other complaints, I think you need to be realistic about what you buy, what partner elites mean to each airline etc.
Can you imagine the reaction when a French person flying FC US domestic is told they can't go into the CRC... (I was shocked the first time I learned I couldn't) ... And if you've never seen it, DL lounge agents can be pretty firm denying entry as well.

And last but not least...

Umm...
You know what? Whatever...

RSSrsvp

remyontheroad, we have had countless accounts of PM's (Skyteam Elite +) who had not received their credentials yet and are being denied entry to AF clubs. Instead of being hassled the way they are, one would think that the professional approach by an AF lounge agent would be to make a simple phone call to DL and verify the PM's status. As for CRC agents enforcing the rules, I seriously doubt that an AF Fréquence Plus Red member who is also a Skyteam Elite + would encounter a similar problem if they were requested to call AF to verify their status.

gayparav

Are you crazy?

Delta is the weakest point of Skyteam! Airfrance by far the strongest. Better in mostly every points + they make money.

Delta:
Worst in-flight service by far. They have like 4 persons serving the entire coach area and it takes more than an hour if you are on the back. At mid-flight half the FA are sleeping in the best places of the plane they had reserved for themself if the flight is not full. And don't ask them anything, they hate you anyway.

Clueless CSR on phone that won't give you a manager. Plus they lie and don't care. I've been assured at least 4 times this year that I was having a seat that could handle a baby crib on Delta even at the gate! Each time, I was in the middle of the plane without such a seat and without food for my baby even if I had requested it! On an intercontinental. Also this year, I got rescheduled by DL and after I said I didn't care I realized that they didn't confirmed that my dog traveling in a Kennel was fine too. I called back and they said that the new plane couldn't accomodate dogs and that this is a service they provide but are not obligated to do so and if I wanted to change my ticket, I would have to pay! After three hours on the phone I got somebody to clear the situation. Crazy.

I see a lot of Americans pissed at Air France because they believe that paying a lot for a first/business ticket means that they get everything. Most of the time it's Skyteam that is to blame because they are not that well integrated and other airlines have no obligation to accomodate Delta customers. In the US, you can talk to Airline employees as if you were better than them, they are used to. In France, anybody would think they are better than you ;-)

The only things that suck with Air France are:
1/ Strikes
2/ Luggage handling (Impressive 5 times luggage delay on ATL-MRS-ATL this year for me and my wife. AMEX hates me)
3/ Not enough e-tickets / online access.

As for the poster, if you buy a restricted ticket you get what you pay for. If you could change them, it wouldn't mean anything. Leave cheap tickets for holiday travelers and buy unrestricted tickets when you are on business.

Vincent

RSSrsvp

You have omitted the lack of priority boarding for elites. I have flown JFK-CDG many times and at CDG for my return trip home, you feel as if you are being loaded on a cattle car. I was literally laughed at by an AF agent at the gate in CDG when I once inquired about priority boarding for Skyteam elites (that is clearly stated on the Skyteam website for AF international flights). He was extremely rude and spoke perfect English.

JRF

DL is not interested in fixing AF. In the beginning of the Alliance, DL was working with AF to iron out these issues. Now, DL is focused on one thing only, CUTTING COST. DL does not care about you, AF or anyone else, just cutting cost. DL actually does not care if cutting cost will cut profits... they are in tunnel mode, cut it, cut it, cut it.... and if you can't cut it, look for a new job. Things are not going to improve at AF becuase AF laughs at DL PMs.... The only good thing is that AF makes me think a little higher of DL... and that is hard to do.

Helena Handbaskets

I've been in the first class lounge at 2F, and I would've described it about the way you described the business lounge. I've been in the business lounge, too, and I will say that the first class lounge does have a significantly more upscale feel to it, except for one thing -- it's surprisingly crowded. Not that it's full of people, though I suppose it could be at times. No, what's surprising is how little space there is to maneuver between chairs, lamp tables, etc. In my mind that takes away significantly from the upscale image they try to project with the furniture and decor. Also, it may be a function of having visited the lounges at different times of day, but I recall being favorably impressed by the food options in the business lounge one day at roughly breakfast time, but I remember only a few fairly nice packaged cookies and crackers from the first class lounge while awaiting a 23:00 departure for HKG. Then again, I had just finished a wonderful meal at the "serious" restaurant (forget its name) at the CDG Sheraton, so snacks were not high on my priority list at the time.

JOUY31

Les Saisons is the standard restaurant. The "serious" one is Les Etoiles.

dctorres

All these angry comments about AF....

I guess that's the difference between a fiancially viable airline and a near-broke airline.

kb1992

Does AF receive government subsidy?

blairvanhorn

Indeed - I suppose all those PMs who haven't received their credentials yet and are being hassled by AF agents can thank DL for having sent them via bulk mail to save costs.

francophile

Perhaps it does. DL can also receive government subsidies. A simple bankruptcy filing is all that is required. Just ask UA.

RobertS975

Wife, teenager and I are travelling in April BOS-CDG on a DL codeshare ticket on an AF nonstop in business class. I have always resisted using AF and CDG for connections because of the many stories on this board about missed connections and delayed luggage, but a nonstop flight is hard to resist.

Questions: Will my usual large rollaboard be OK as hand luggage? It works all over the US, but I have been on intra-European flights where they have made me check it. How is AF across the ocean in biz class in terms of carry-on luggage?

And does AF treat you any differently, either at check-in here or in Paris, because I am on a DL ticket?