RSSrsvp

I am curious as to why DL does not fly JFK-LGW. It is frustrating not to be able to use them for that route. My only choice currently for a non-stop with a SkyTeam partner is to take CO EWR-LGW and earn my MQM's that way.

platbrownguy

I don't think DL could succeed in the NYC-LON market at all - there's already way too much competition, and the only 'unique' thing they'd have would be flying into Gatwick instead of LHR... this could potentially draw a good number of pax from the UK side who live south/east of Central London. But BA, VS, CO, and AA run so many frequencies in this market I think it'd really be a struggle for DL to make it work.

Other than that, the product isn't there, the onboard service isn't there, and just from seeing BA's loads on JFK-LHR, I'm not sure the demand is there.

Airfrancefan

UA flies that route to

the DL 763ER Y product(i would not think that DL has enough 777s for this route) is far behind the BA,CO,UA,AA and VS Y product that it would do any good for DL

Justin026

There is a ton of competition from New York to London, but one thinks that Delta would need this route to complete their network. It doesn't make sense for the carrier with the largest New York to Europe network to not have the spoke linking to Europe's largest market.

Of course, it also doesn't make sense for there to be no service between the world's airports with the largest passenger count (Atlanta) and the largest international passenger count (Heathrow).

I realize these are all consequences of not having up-to-date treaties in lockstep with the way that the old TWA and Pan Am franchises were sold off.

platbrownguy

I believe it was something like the Bermuda and Bermuda II rules that are the reason US-LHR flights only go from certain cities... maybe someone else can shed some more light on why exactly there can't be flights from cities like DFW, ATL, or LAS to LHR.

graraps

LHR doesn't even have the space to accommodate anyone else! And who needs another airline flying this route? In addition to the airlines already mentioned, there is a direct AI flight and I think another Asian carrier offers it too!

MartinG

Kuwaiti Airlines too

RSSrsvp

BTW, you cannot get a codeshare on the CO flights that fly EWR-LGW. I recently tried to price out a JFK-CDG outgoing on DL and an LGW-EWR return on CO and could only get a full Y fare as they don't codeshare on these routes. Both airlines had discounted inventory available but it didn't show because they don't codeshare.

El Perro

There are anywhere from 25-30 flights a day from NYC-LON EACH WAY. There is arguably not a single more saturated long haul international route on the planet. Airlines that fly this route include:

Air India
American (several times per day)
British Airways of course (several times per day)
El Al
Kuwaiti
United (also several times per day)
Virgin Atlantic (ditto)
Continental (EWR several times per day)

Also you need to fly to LHR if you want to compete. JFK-LGW is a non-starter. Continental can fly EWR-LGW because they have a super hub a EWR and have a lot of connecting traffic. I'm not sure how much O/D they get on that flight with so many direct flights to LHR available. i would guess that they get a lot more connecting traffic on that flight than anyone else.

However, I have always felt Delta and Continental (should they ever start making money again) should carpetbomb NYC-LGW with capacity to get the BAA to liberalize Heathrow. I'm talking 10 flights a day every day with SimpliFares. Nobody will give a crap what the product is - it will sell and put a hurting to the protected carriers.

You have to remember that the BAA is TERRIFIED of Delta and Continental due to their massive east coast hubs - especially at EWR and ATL. Delta has much better connection options than AA at JFK - remember most of AA's flights out of there are international and their premium transcontinental routes. Ditto for United, who doesn't have any flights out of JFK except to LAX, SFO, and LHR. I think BAA likes seeing the Walking Wounded flying that route right now.

Passmethesickbag

BAA = British Airports Authority = operates LHR and LGW. Don't see what they would have against CO and DL - do you mean BA?

El Perro

The reason LHR is restricted by the BAA is to protect BA from discounters and massive competition.

RSSrsvp

Is there something that prevents DL from codesharing CO's EWR-LGW flights as they don't fly from JFK themselves?

El Perro

I THINK the antitrust immunity for the DL/NW/CO codeshare is for domestic only and doesn't allow this.

And I'm not sure that it would make sense for DL to do it. DL doesn't have a lot of traffic to feed the route, and the connecting traffic is where the money is made in that situation I would think - a passenger buys a ticket and flies DL to EWR before getting on the CO flight to LGW.

If Delta had more flights to EWR or there was a convenient way to get to EWR from LGA/JFK then it would make more sense. And there's the problem of DL flights to EWR competing with the CO flights to EWR, so there's little incentive for CO to agree to the codeshare in this case, too.

But I'm thinking out loud here. For all I know they want to do it and are prevented by the aforementioned antitrust issues.

dspringer28

Right, I think the current U.S.-UK bilateral agreement, Bermuda II, restricts access to Heathrow to just 14 U.S. cities and 2 U.S. flaged airlines.

IIRC, the cities that can have LHR service are:
BOS, BWI, DEN, DTW, EWR, IAD, JFK, LAX, MIA, ORD, PHL, PHX, SEA, SFO.

Passmethesickbag

BAA's objective is to make money for their own shareholders, not to protect BA. It is not their decision to restrict access to LHR.