mhbaker

I noted several months ago how the upgradeable M fares for international travel had escalated to the point of being ridiculous. Apparently, nothing has changed. I priced an upcoming trip from ORD to LGW on DL and go a $1600+ M fare which I could upgrade for 50,000 SkyMiles. The upgradeable fare on BA is $600+ and 25,000 miles. DL loses the fare and the expenditure of SkyMiles. In September I booked a first class award ticket on AF for 100,000 rather than give DL 90,000 for an inferior BE product. If DL has any interest in keeping my international travel business, paid and award, it certainly hasn't demonstrated it in its pricing or award schedule.

underpressure

If you think the fares are nuts to England, check out the M fares to Tokyo....

DeltaFlyingProf

Well I am agreeing on these comments. DL's upgrade policies are ridiculous. If I ever loose PM status, I am definitely leaving DL. As mentioned in other threads, I am looking at NW, but could also look at AA.

francophile

I agree that the 25,000 BA miles upgrade from T to J class is quite a good deal. But please take note that for premium class award travel, using BA miles is much more costly than using DL SkyMiles. Consider the following comparison for travel from North America:

Europe:
Skyteam J: 90,000
BA J: 100,000, 120,000, or 130,000
Skyteam F: 100,000
BA F: 150,000, 180,000 or 205,000

Far East Asia:
Skyteam J: 120,000
BA J: 240,000
Skyteam F: 140,000
BA F: 360,000

Australasia:
Skyteam J: 150,000
BA J: 280,000
Skyteam F: 200,000
BA F: 420,000

FTraveler

Wow! What do they charge for RTW in F? 1M miles?

GUWonder

The BA awards are for flights from North America to said destination via London. In the case of the BA award to Australia, this is nearly a round the world flight: US to LHR to SIN/BKK to SYD.

That said, BA awards are far more expensive on most routes than like awards on other frequent flier programs.

Kahuna

DL lost all my international business to UAL for this very reason.

I did take advantage of some very competitive CO Z fares to Europe this summer and this helped provide me with DL PL status for 2005 but DL will continue to receive no intl business unless I am using their miles on VS and SQ(if I get real lucky).

francophile

But even on awards using BA miles not routing through the UK, using BA miles is still much more costly than it is to use DL SkyMiles. Here's a comparison for awards from LAX using DL SkyMiles and BA miles (not routing through the UK):

Buenos Aires:
Skyteam J: 90,000
BA J: 180,000

Sydney:
Skyteam J: 100,000
BA J: 200,000
Skyteam F: 150,000
BA F: 300,000

Hong Kong:
Skyteam J: 120,000
BA J: 200,000
Skyteam F: 140,000
BA F: 300,000

francophile

Here are the redemption mileage requirements for a typical 26,000 mile round-the-world award:

Skyteam J: 220,000
AA J: 190,000
BA J: 280,000

Skyteam F: 280,000
AA F: 280,000
BA F: 420,000

RSSrsvp

The M fares for international travel have been increasing at a steady pace over the last 3 years. An M fare to CDG or BCN was available for about $800-900 in 2000 & 2001. Today it is around $1300-1500.

I have listed two examples below:


Price per passenger: $1,456.21 (USD)
Leg Carrier
Flight # Cabin &
Class Departs Arrives Stops
From Time/Date To Time/Date
1 New York-Kennedy, NY to Paris-De Gaulle, France on Monday, 14 Feb 2005
Delta 16 Coach (M) JFK 6:05pm
14 Feb 2005 CDG 7:35am
15 Feb 2005 0
2 Paris-De Gaulle, France to New York-Kennedy, NY on Monday, 21 Feb 2005
Delta 17 Coach (M) CDG 1:20pm
21 Feb 2005 JFK 3:45pm
21 Feb 2005 0

Price per passenger: $1,315.08 (USD)
Leg Carrier
Flight # Cabin &
Class Departs Arrives Stops
From Time/Date To Time/Date
1 New York-Kennedy, NY to Barcelona, Spain on Monday, 14 Feb 2005
Delta 90 Coach (M) JFK 5:55pm
14 Feb 2005 BCN 7:45am
15 Feb 2005 0
2 Barcelona, Spain to New York-Kennedy, NY on Monday, 21 Feb 2005
Delta 90 Coach (M) BCN 10:30am
21 Feb 2005 JFK 3:45pm
21 Feb 2005 1

FTraveler

I remember doing HNL-CDG in M for $1400 with a Saturday night stay several years ago. Now, it is $2100 with a 7-day minimum stay.

UA will let me use my SWUs on a $1000 fare or miles on a $1400 fare.

mhbaker

Francophile: You are absolutely correct regarding BA award travel. However, for those people who use their miles for upgrades the BA fares/mileage requirements are substantially better than DL. When using SkyMiles for award travel, the 100,000 mile first class award on Air France is a no-brainer.

GUWonder

You may want to re-visit some of the numbers above using the applicable charts that take the partner awards into consideration.

BA miles required for US to Argentina is 40k in coach/economy and 80k in business. This is on American or Lan Chile.

A DL business ticket for US to UK to Argentina is not going to be 90k miles; nor will the BA one. That said, BA miles are generally not a good value (and not very flexible), but they are not always much worse than DL in terms of redemption value (if space is available). [Sometimes they have redemptions at a better level.]

One good thing about BA miles is the one-way awards at half-mileage redemption levels on most of their partners regardless of class.

graraps

The vast majority of BA booking classes in economy yield 25% of miles flown....which, for somebody often finding themselves in the back of the plane, would mean that the actual cost of obtaining an award/upgrade is even higher than it seems!

platbrownguy

This is one thing I absolutely love about the BA miles - you can also do one-way upgrades for half the mileage (12,500 miles from T to J transatlantic).

As far as whose miles are better though, even within oneworld BA's redemption rates are far worse than AA's for the same routes, and BA's are terrible for premium class travel.

Basically, whatever the redemption amount is for a coach ticket, it's 2X for J and 3X for F, compared to DL where it tends to be 1.8X for J and 2X for F.