M Class Intn'l Fares Through the Roof
Aug 22, 2004, 8:39 am
#16
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Originally Posted by vasantn
I recently flew JFK-NRT on AA in J for $440 and a couple of upgrade certificates (the current fare is about $700). I can't imagine paying $6,500, much less $8,200, for the same experience on DL (which isn't even a nonstop).
I'm sorry, but Delta's J class is NOT $1500+ better than American's C class.
Aug 22, 2004, 8:45 pm
#17
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Originally Posted by NYBanker
Back when I was an int'l upgrader, I'd only purchase an M seat if the Z was available at time of booking. For people who have been purchasing Ms (presumably more for the upgrade eligibility than the MQMs), are you finding Z avail on these int'l flights?
Though DL's BE may not be as good as some OALs I frankly find it remarkable what some OALs will take for payment in J. A few hundered dollars plus miles may not make any economic sense.
Aug 22, 2004, 9:01 pm
#18
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Originally Posted by CelticFlyer
Though DL's BE may not be as good as some OALs I frankly find it remarkable what some OALs will take for payment in J. A few hundered dollars plus miles may not make any economic sense.
Using the current domestic fares as a baseline, I feel an international fare in the $1,500+ range to be acceptable for upgrades. When you start getting to $2,000+, some resistance sets in and DL needs to make certain that their service level is up to par to expect these fares.
Aug 22, 2004, 10:10 pm
#19
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Originally Posted by Cholula
The $440 JFK/NRT upgradeable fare from AA may have been a bargain but it's clearly not sustainable.
Originally Posted by Cholula
And frankly I've got to question the common sense of any airline who would allow a fare this absurdly low to be upgraded.
Originally Posted by Cholula
Using the current domestic fares as a baseline, I feel an international fare in the $1,500+ range to be acceptable for upgrades.
Last edited by vasantn; Aug 22, 2004 at 10:16 pm
Aug 22, 2004, 10:31 pm
#20
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Originally Posted by vasantn
Only if you're used to DL's gouging (as I used to be) for upgradable fares.
Aug 23, 2004, 7:11 am
#21
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Real Reason M fares are higher - IMHO
With the elimination of the rear cabin in the 767-300ER, DL has fewer BE seats to sell on all non-777 international routes. This means that to achieve the same load factor, they must sell (or award) fewer seats. Thus, with a shift in the supply curve to the left, equilibrium prices rise.
This is reflected most of all in M fares, in my view. BE prices haven't changed proportionately as much because there is competition (full-fare travelers can go to another airline). But Skymiles members trying to upgrade a ticket with miles generally can't go to another airline, thus DL can get away with raising the M-fare prices.
This is reflected most of all in M fares, in my view. BE prices haven't changed proportionately as much because there is competition (full-fare travelers can go to another airline). But Skymiles members trying to upgrade a ticket with miles generally can't go to another airline, thus DL can get away with raising the M-fare prices.
Aug 23, 2004, 7:17 am
#22
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Originally Posted by EchoVictor
With the elimination of the rear cabin in the 767-300ER, DL has fewer BE seats to sell on all non-777 international routes. This means that to achieve the same load factor, they must sell (or award) fewer seats. Thus, with a shift in the supply curve to the left, equilibrium prices rise.
This is reflected most of all in M fares, in my view. BE prices haven't changed proportionately as much because there is competition (full-fare travelers can go to another airline). But Skymiles members trying to upgrade a ticket with miles generally can't go to another airline, thus DL can get away with raising the M-fare prices.
This is reflected most of all in M fares, in my view. BE prices haven't changed proportionately as much because there is competition (full-fare travelers can go to another airline). But Skymiles members trying to upgrade a ticket with miles generally can't go to another airline, thus DL can get away with raising the M-fare prices.
Aug 23, 2004, 9:54 am
#23
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Originally Posted by mhbaker
I'm still interested in hearing from folks who can provide a comparison between BE and business class on AA, CO and Virgin.
That said, I would much rather buy a $1000 ticket on AA and spend 50k miles to upgrade that to a middle seat in business, instead of buying a $2000 ticket on DL and spending 50k miles to upgrade. The product isn't nice enough to shell out the extra $1000. And since AA lets me upgrade from any fare, the off-season deals are that much better.
Aug 23, 2004, 9:55 am
#24
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Originally Posted by mhbaker
The M fare from CVG was approximately $1900! I don't ever remember paying more than $1000 for an M class fare. I then checked the BE fare and it's slightly over $2000. There's a simplifare for you. I guess DL's made it clear what I can do (or more accurately not do) with my SkyMiles.
The I-fare requires more than a month's advance purchase and 7 or more days stay. For many of us business types, this is just not feasible. The only alternative for say a 4 day travel to Europe is to purchase a full fare J ($8,000+) or an M ($ 1,800 - 2,200) that then can be upgraded with PMU's or miles. Thus, comparing M to J is a much more fair comparison and when doing that, you do get a lot of "bang" for your miles/certificate.
Aug 23, 2004, 10:53 am
#25
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Originally Posted by EchoVictor
...with a shift in the supply curve to the left, equilibrium prices rise.
Aug 23, 2004, 11:33 am
#26
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Originally Posted by Cholula
The $440 JFK/NRT upgradeable fare from AA may have been a bargain but it's clearly not sustainable. And frankly I've got to question the common sense of any airline who would allow a fare this absurdly low to be upgraded.
Using the current domestic fares as a baseline, I feel an international fare in the $1,500+ range to be acceptable for upgrades. When you start getting to $2,000+, some resistance sets in and DL needs to make certain that their service level is up to par to expect these fares.
Using the current domestic fares as a baseline, I feel an international fare in the $1,500+ range to be acceptable for upgrades. When you start getting to $2,000+, some resistance sets in and DL needs to make certain that their service level is up to par to expect these fares.
What it does, though, is reward those who have given plenty of business to AA the chance to use their miles or certs in any manner they see fit, subject to availability and capacity controls. Delta is much more stingy, offering no opportunity for those miles or certs to be used on cheap fares. As a result, a large portion of my business and leisure travel is on AA and very little, if any, on DL. This means that when it's time for me to choose a carrier for those paid J/C/Y fares, DL is not even a candidate - only AA and sometimes US are considered.
Aug 23, 2004, 1:02 pm
#27
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Originally Posted by Cholula
DL can apparently fill their B/E flights quite easily so they really have no reason to scale back the fares and/or requirements for upgrading. And the other US majors have either one or two feet in the grave themselves and are hardly role models for how to price an international fare.
I want to see DL healthy for a variety of reasons and if they can pull off a higher price on international routes, more power to them. But at some point...sooner rather than later... they're going to have to make sure their B/E service is equal to or superior to the competition.
I want to see DL healthy for a variety of reasons and if they can pull off a higher price on international routes, more power to them. But at some point...sooner rather than later... they're going to have to make sure their B/E service is equal to or superior to the competition.
If some people balk at paying those fares--either upgradeable M or BE (I)--there should be more availability for those willing to do so.
DAL isn't trying to fly those planes back and forth with bunches of empty seats.
Aug 25, 2004, 2:16 pm
#28
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Originally Posted by EchoVictor
With the elimination of the rear cabin in the 767-300ER, DL has fewer BE seats to sell on all non-777 international routes. This means that to achieve the same load factor, they must sell (or award) fewer seats. Thus, with a shift in the supply curve to the left, equilibrium prices rise.
Apr 14, 2006, 2:52 pm
#29
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 395
M Class through the roof
Originally Posted by FTraveler
I used to book upgradeable DL M fares HNL-LGW that were running about $1,200. Over the past two years, they creeped up to $1,400, $1,700, and are now $2,200.
I use UA to LHR now, with $1,000 fares upgradeable with SWUs and $1,200 fares with miles.
I use UA to LHR now, with $1,000 fares upgradeable with SWUs and $1,200 fares with miles.
It makes you wonder what PMUs are worth. I see it as a stealth PM take away.
Has anyone else noticed this?
Apr 14, 2006, 3:54 pm
#30
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I paid $1249 for an M fare from BDL to NRT. I used a PMU to upgrade.
I have a number of London flights coming up and on DL , even in "T" I am looking at close to $1,000. The M fares are pricing close to $2800
I am now booking all my flights on VS and UA. The highest fare paid was $603 w/tax, that was in UA. I'd rather fly JFK-LHR or BOS-LHR non-stop. LHR is much easier to fly through anyway (I hate Gatwick).
I have a number of London flights coming up and on DL , even in "T" I am looking at close to $1,000. The M fares are pricing close to $2800
I am now booking all my flights on VS and UA. The highest fare paid was $603 w/tax, that was in UA. I'd rather fly JFK-LHR or BOS-LHR non-stop. LHR is much easier to fly through anyway (I hate Gatwick).