Two flights, same flight number

Old Sep 24, 09, 8:46 am
  #1  
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Two flights, same flight number

Hello,

I fly on a regular basis from Binghamton (BGM) to Fort Wayne (FWA) through DTW.

Recently, both leg of this trip became part of the same flight (NW4111), and I end up only getting 1 segment and the basic 500 miles while I used to get 2 segments and 1000 miles (which I still get if I fly in the morning).

I'm not sure I'm really clear, let's make an example:

if I fly in the morning:
BGM-DTW (NW 3840)
DTW-FWA (NW 3190)
I get 2 segments and 1000 miles

If I take the afternoon flight
BGM-DTW (NW4111)
DTW-FWA (NW4111)
I only get 1 segment and 500 miles.

Is there anything I can do or I'm just in bad luck ?

I know 1 segment and 500 miles don't sound a lot, but I don't fly that much and often on this trip.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:01 am
  #2  
 
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Originally Posted by arnaudgf View Post
Is there anything I can do or I'm just in bad luck ?

I know 1 segment and 500 miles don't sound a lot, but I don't fly that much and often on this trip.
Yeah, that. If it's the same flight number with no change of aircraft, it's still considered one segment and I don't know of any way around that unless you force a connection at DTW to the later flight DTW/FWA. But that gives you nearly 4 hours on the ground so probably not worth it.

You should get sector miles on the flight of 508, so still a bonus of 8 miles. Woo-hoo!

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's only been converted to the same flight number by Pinnacle because they just happen to be utilizing the same aircraft to serve both segments, not out of any great desire to offer direct service between BGM and FWA. Flight ops will tweak it back to a connection in no time since those same aircraft city pair anomalies change constantly.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:04 am
  #3  
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That's what I thought
Let's hope they will change it quickly again.

The funny thing is that even if it's the same flight number, I don't think it's the same aircraft (or the aircraft was moved from one gate to the other faster than it took me to walk there )
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:17 am
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Yea, I don't know why they even do this since there are very few flights w/in the system that actually are "direct" flights where a change of aircraft is truly a rare and unexpected event.

I remember you used to be able to count on these--in the mid 90's we would frequently do RST-MSP-YXE at a certain time of the day because it was the same DC9-30 on both flights... I think you could even leave your stuff on the plane @ MSP if you wanted.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:25 am
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Originally Posted by arnaudgf View Post
Hello,

I fly on a regular basis from Binghamton (BGM) to Fort Wayne (FWA) through DTW.

---

Is there anything I can do or I'm just in bad luck ?

I know 1 segment and 500 miles don't sound a lot, but I don't fly that much and often on this trip.
Have you thought about using an alternate airport at either end... one possibility would be to go into South Bend.

Bob H
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:29 am
  #6  
 
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I had the same problem with a MSP connection. Same flight number, but it did require a gate and plane change. Showed up as 1 segment, 500 miles. I called the WP hotline and they gladly split into 2 segments/1000 miles without question.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:32 am
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Originally Posted by arnaudgf View Post
The funny thing is that even if it's the same flight number, I don't think it's the same aircraft (or the aircraft was moved from one gate to the other faster than it took me to walk there )
You are correct. Today the flight arrives gate C22 and departs B6, was accommodated at the same gates yesterday.

The mystery is that they utilize only one seat chart for the entire segment, so that generally means it is the same aircraft. If it's a funnel flight, meaning for whatever reason they use the same flight number for two segments on different aircraft, then a secondary seat chart should pop up for segment two.

This one is really funky and out of the ordinary. Moving an aircraft between gates during an enroute stopover is highly unusual, at least on a domestic flight. The next time you are on that flight ask the crew what sort of funny business is going on at DTW.

The airlines operate in a parallel dimension sometimes. If you try to make sense of it you'll go mad.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:34 am
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Originally Posted by RCarverJr View Post
I had the same problem with a MSP connection. Same flight number, but it did require a gate and plane change. Showed up as 1 segment, 500 miles. I called the WP hotline and they gladly split into 2 segments/1000 miles without question.
Good advice. If they not operating the flight as a true direct segment you should get the extra miles for having to deplane and transfer to a different gate.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:37 am
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Originally Posted by RCarverJr View Post
I had the same problem with a MSP connection. Same flight number, but it did require a gate and plane change. Showed up as 1 segment, 500 miles. I called the WP hotline and they gladly split into 2 segments/1000 miles without question.
They did?

Good to know, I'll try to call them tomorrow then (since I'm flying that funky flight today again )

Thanks

To BobH: that would be a good idea, but I live in Binghamton and when I go to FWA it's actually to do business in the city so the extra driving isn't worth it (for me), specialy if I can get them to split the 2 segments
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Old Sep 24, 09, 9:50 am
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Originally Posted by Booker View Post
This one is really funky and out of the ordinary. Moving an aircraft between gates during an enroute stopover is highly unusual, at least on a domestic flight. The next time you are on that flight ask the crew what sort of funny business is going on at DTW.

The airlines operate in a parallel dimension sometimes. If you try to make sense of it you'll go mad.
They don't actually move the aircraft... They will end up using the aircraft at the first gate to fly somewhere else, and use a second aircraft.

That's why I don't understand NW having flights with the same flight number that are a change of aircraft. More often than not, same flight number = get off the plane. The ONLY bonus to this is that you do not pay landing fees for DTW. Doing a search for a one-way flight from FWA-BGM, NW 4110 is 473.00 and NW 4139 connecting to 3861 is $480.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 10:21 am
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Originally Posted by cfwolfs View Post
They don't actually move the aircraft... They will end up using the aircraft at the first gate to fly somewhere else, and use a second aircraft.
I didn't think that they did, just stated that it would be highly unusual to do so.

But what is highly unusual is that they use a single seat chart for a flight number that physically changes aircraft during a stopover.

Usually the airlines will use a single flight number that involves a change of aircraft for the funnel flight ruse, gives the customer the impression that they are booking a preferable direct flight in an effort to attract more passengers from the upline city to a downline destination. It's primarily marketing smoke and mirrors, sort of like many code shares.

I can't explain the arrangement in this case. That's why we need arnaudgf to interrogate the crew today and get back to us.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 11:26 am
  #12  
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Originally Posted by RCarverJr View Post
I had the same problem with a MSP connection. Same flight number, but it did require a gate and plane change. Showed up as 1 segment, 500 miles. I called the WP hotline and they gladly split into 2 segments/1000 miles without question.
Hum... I can't find the WP Hotline number... The one I have is an automated number where I can't get to talk to a real person... can you remind it to me please? thanks
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Old Sep 24, 09, 12:59 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by Booker View Post
Yeah, that. If it's the same flight number with no change of aircraft, it's still considered one segment and I don't know of any way around that unless you force a connection at DTW to the later flight DTW/FWA. But that gives you nearly 4 hours on the ground so probably not worth it.

You should get sector miles on the flight of 508, so still a bonus of 8 miles. Woo-hoo!

I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's only been converted to the same flight number by Pinnacle because they just happen to be utilizing the same aircraft to serve both segments, not out of any great desire to offer direct service between BGM and FWA. Flight ops will tweak it back to a connection in no time since those same aircraft city pair anomalies change constantly.
Even if there is a change of aircraft, it's treated as one segment as long as the flight number doesn't change.
Originally Posted by arnaudgf View Post
Hello,

I fly on a regular basis from Binghamton (BGM) to Fort Wayne (FWA) through DTW.

Recently, both leg of this trip became part of the same flight (NW4111), and I end up only getting 1 segment and the basic 500 miles while I used to get 2 segments and 1000 miles (which I still get if I fly in the morning).

I'm not sure I'm really clear, let's make an example:

if I fly in the morning:
BGM-DTW (NW 3840)
DTW-FWA (NW 3190)
I get 2 segments and 1000 miles

If I take the afternoon flight
BGM-DTW (NW4111)
DTW-FWA (NW4111)
I only get 1 segment and 500 miles.

Is there anything I can do or I'm just in bad luck ?


I know 1 segment and 500 miles don't sound a lot, but I don't fly that much and often on this trip.
thing. Yeah. Just don't fly on that itinerary. This means you can't do anything. You will see that "Direct" flights change from time to time. It just may happen that when the new schedule comes out, the itinerary maight not be a direct flight.

The don't move the aircraft to a different gate. The aircraft you arrived on goes somewhere else bearing a different flight number, while an aircraft at a different gate assumes your original flight number. I really don't understand why they do that. Other than saving the pax some PFC or misleading some people into thinking it's a nonstop or that all the segments are on the same aircraft. I have been on the same plane that switched flight numbers. I flew MSY-MEM-EWR-MSP. MEM-EWR-MSP was the same aircraft. The MSY-MEM might have been on the same aircraft too. When I disembarked in MSP, the crew joked with me asking me if I wanted to fly to North Dakota with them.

Last edited by Yaatri; Sep 24, 09 at 1:10 pm
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Old Sep 25, 09, 12:11 am
  #14  
 
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These "direct" flights not only screw with your segment count and 500 min accrual, it also messes with your upgrade changes. If you upgrade is not available or processed on the first leg, you're not getting upgraded at all on the second, not even on the list.
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Old Sep 25, 09, 2:04 am
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Originally Posted by RCarverJr View Post
I had the same problem with a MSP connection. Same flight number, but it did require a gate and plane change. Showed up as 1 segment, 500 miles. I called the WP hotline and they gladly split into 2 segments/1000 miles without question.
Originally Posted by reddawngrl View Post
These "direct" flights not only screw with your segment count and 500 min accrual, it also messes with your upgrade changes. If you upgrade is not available or processed on the first leg, you're not getting upgraded at all on the second, not even on the list.


Just wait until the NW system is gone. I booked SFO-ATL-PBI in June for an August trip. DL changed the trip to the same flight number with the warning "change of aircraft." There were 20+ empty first class seats and when I did not upgrade from ATL-PBI before the flight I called DL and asked to have the flights split. They said the only way I could do it was if I flew LAX-ATL on a flight that departed 2 hours earlier.

I did not upgrade from SFO-ATL, and when I arrived in ATL there were 12 empty first class seats for ATL-PBI, two people on the upgrade list and my name was not there.

In ATL they said I could not upgrade unless unless a purchased a new seperate ticket from ATL-PBI even though there were plenty of first class seats. They said that it has always been that way.

When I returned from the ATL service counter a fellow traveller told me that the DL ATL gate agents were making fun of me and criticizing me, and saying "he thinks that he is going to get upgraded."

Welcome to DL. This is the type of service us DL flyers are happy with. We love our Delta.

SM= Sky Miles = Sado-Masochist

Last edited by BF263533; Sep 25, 09 at 2:14 am
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