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New DL Double or Triple QM Promo in the works? AA fires first shot

New DL Double or Triple QM Promo in the works? AA fires first shot

Old Sep 3, 09, 10:47 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by pmaddock View Post
Any way you look at it now though the cat is completely out of the bag - the relationship of EQM to BIS flying has been broken.
Broken, or wisely aligned so that EQM/MQM activity - which is more profitable for the airline than RDM activity - is encouraged and aggressively rewarded? If Delta, a for-profit company, sees more improvement to its bottom line when someone spends $30K on one of their affinity cards than when someone flies 15K paid BIS miles, wouldn't it make sense for them to adjust their reward system accordingly?

Originally Posted by pmaddock View Post
Although there have been occassional EQM giveaways in the past - nothing even remotely compares to this year. We've got credit card sign-up regular and promo offers, the possibility of multiple EQM X times promos, amazing gift bonuses, and hotel bonuses. Before this year I remember only one EQM promo of any significance - the UA matched 2x back in 2005. This year its off the charts. EQM is now following the path of RDM.
Except that the MQM activities being encouraged are generally more profitable for Delta. I'm only one data point, but I can say with certainty that my spending on both DL flights and partner activities is far higher than ever before *directly* as a result of the aggressive promos.

Originally Posted by pmaddock View Post
Now here's an intersting question - what do you think an EQM is actually worth to the airlines?
I'm not sure, and I don't know whether they disclose this, but you could get a rough idea by looking at the fact they enable 30K MQMs for a $60K spend and $495 fee for their Amex Reserve cards while it takes 30K paid BIS flight miles to achieve the same MQMs. Estimate their profits from each activity, divide, and you could guess at the ratio. Earning activities outside of CC use could also be compared to BIS earning in a similar fashion to further narrow your estimate. My guess - and its just a rough guess - is that MQM activity is worth 3x as much to DL as RDM activity.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:00 am
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I hope DL does do it.

I hope but don't expect DL to match AA in full on giving the reward choice of systemwide upgrades AA is giving to super-Executive Platinums who do 125k or more elite qualifying miles.
Pleeeeeeeeaaaaassssee Don't Match!! Printing more money, MQM's or miles has never increased the value of anything. All I need is 275,000 MQM's so I can share the upgrade list with a bunch of people that made DM primarily by not flying....
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:00 am
  #78  
fpm
 
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I had a flight delayed due to mechanical problems yesterday and spent quite a bit of time on the phone getting rebooked. One of the agents I spoke with was in a good mood and we chatted about the merger of Skymiles and WorldPerks. She told me there are 74 million SkyMile members - didn't break out plats & golds. This is before the addition of WP members. That is 25% of the population.

I found out how to get the agents in the former WorldClub upset - ask then to rebook flights on DL metal. One agent accomplished the rebooking although she had to consult another agent and took quite awhile. She told me it was challenging with a strained smile.

A different agent - same club - typed for a few moments and then looked at me and said 'Delta won't let me rebook that flight. You need to go to the gate and they will rebook you.' Hence the call above. She had a binder from Delta labeled CUSTOMER SERVICE AGENT BASICS. It was 2" thick.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:03 am
  #79  
 
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I'm fine with the credit card schemes. That has always been a part of the program. I specifically have a problem with the 2x and 3x MQM earning schemes because, for the most part, I get mine organically. I fly a lot more L U T than Y B M, and there is no doubt in my mind that a PE on a Y should CERTAINLY trump me for everything when I am PE on a T. On the same note, I think that somebody who gets the MQMs year in and year out the same way should trump someone that sat on a T fare back and forth between JFK and LAX just for status. A lot of Flyertalkers seem to forget this is a for-profit business. It doesn't make sense to me to offer an "elite" level and then allow EVERYONE in it. It's like going into Macy's to buy a shirt and having nothing on the rack but Walmart's "Faded Glory" brand. Not everyone can buy Ralph Lauren, and that is OK. Not everyone can be elite, and that is Ok too!
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:09 am
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
Keep in mind that all of your scenarios of elite inflation assume frequent flyers are flying as frequently now as they were, say, a year ago. But if that were the case no airline would be running these types of promotions. I would guess these EQM deals, applied to a lower amount of actual flying, will yield a total elite population not much bigger than before.
That's still, for the purposes of upgrades, quite a bit of inflation, as you would like the number of elites to go down with the number of F seats.

Or at least the amount of elite travel to go down - at some point in the future, travel is going to rebound, and at that point there are going to be a whole bunch of elites floating around traveling at levels they had previously.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:10 am
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by bubbashow View Post
It doesn't make sense to me to offer an "elite" level and then allow EVERYONE in it.
Make sense for you or for the airline? If people are giving DL cash (whether via CC spend or flying) to become "elite", then I don't see what the problem is. That seems like the whole point of offering different levels of status- to entice people to depart with more of their cash in order to get to the next level.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:22 am
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by pitbrian View Post
Make sense for you or for the airline? If people are giving DL cash (whether via CC spend or flying) to become "elite", then I don't see what the problem is. That seems like the whole point of offering different levels of status- to entice people to depart with more of their cash in order to get to the next level.
But, there comes a kickback at some point. When I can't get elite benefits because of my flying due to people that aren't flying (or because of the inflated masses), I will simply do my flying with some other company that I feel fulfills my needs. Then, one large spender is gone. I am fiercely loyal BECAUSE of the elite program BECAUSE of what it is. When that goes away and it just becomes a method to get a free checked back, I leave. I certainly can't be alone in that category. I spend far too much time in an airplane to not get elite benefits.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:24 am
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by bubbashow View Post
But, there comes a kickback at some point. When I can't get elite benefits because of my flying due to people that aren't flying, I will simply do my flying with some other company that I feel fulfills my needs. Then, one large spender is gone. I am fiercely loyal BECAUSE of the elite program BECAUSE of what it is. When that goes away and it just becomes a method to get a free checked back, I leave. I certainly can't be alone in that category. I spend far too much time in an airplane to not get elite benefits.
Problem is, almost all of DLs major competitors are (or shortly will be) offering DEQM promos, so where do you go? At this point, DL knows people won't leave because they are running a MQM program, but more because they aren't.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:35 am
  #84  
 
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But will they really? I am personally more-inclined to spend MORE money with a company that can promise me better service. That is why I am not opposed to eliminating LUT upgrades IF it would improve the F class product (only IF). I am just speaking personally....I am in radio management, not airline management. I am sure their spreadsheets paint a clearer picture than anything on this board.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:38 am
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by bubbashow View Post
But will they really? I am personally more-inclined to spend MORE money with a company that can promise me better service. That is why I am not opposed to eliminating LUT upgrades IF it would improve the F class product (only IF). I am just speaking personally....I am in radio management, not airline management. I am sure their spreadsheets paint a clearer picture than anything on this board.
If you don't mind spending more money, why don't you buy F on whatever carrier provides the best service and not worry about the MQM dilution issue?
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:38 am
  #86  
 
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Originally Posted by Air Brian View Post
Pleeeeeeeeaaaaassssee Don't Match!! Printing more money, MQM's or miles has never increased the value of anything. All I need is 275,000 MQM's so I can share the upgrade list with a bunch of people that made DM primarily by not flying....
If they didn't fly (although I'm not sure how they get the 2x miles without flying) why are you so worried that they will fly after getting DM and compete for you on the UG list?
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Old Sep 3, 09, 11:45 am
  #87  
LBJ
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Originally Posted by fpm View Post
I had a flight delayed due to mechanical problems yesterday and spent quite a bit of time on the phone getting rebooked. One of the agents I spoke with was in a good mood and we chatted about the merger of Skymiles and WorldPerks. She told me there are 74 million SkyMile members - didn't break out plats & golds. This is before the addition of WP members. That is 25% of the population.

I found out how to get the agents in the former WorldClub upset - ask then to rebook flights on DL metal. One agent accomplished the rebooking although she had to consult another agent and took quite awhile. She told me it was challenging with a strained smile.

A different agent - same club - typed for a few moments and then looked at me and said 'Delta won't let me rebook that flight. You need to go to the gate and they will rebook you.' Hence the call above. She had a binder from Delta labeled CUSTOMER SERVICE AGENT BASICS. It was 2" thick.
Well, I was in the former CRC in FLL a couple months ago and the agent said he was unable to make any changes to NW flights at all. He told me I had to go to one of the "NW gates" (even though they had supposedly merged the NW and DL gates in FLL).
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Old Sep 3, 09, 12:10 pm
  #88  
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If Delta does decide to offer a promo, I hope someone will take the time to clearly write the terms and conditions out so that we won't have all of the questions we had with the last promo.

Remember the debate about whether an M fare would earn 3x MQM, 3.5x MQM, or whatever?

When I hear "double" MQM then to me that means double the normal number of MQMs earned. I hope that the terms are explicitly clear with any new promo.

As to whether there should be a promo or not, you can argue it ten different ways. I'll leave that decision up to Delta. In my personal situation, it would mean that I would travel more this fall than I was planning to do.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 12:29 pm
  #89  
 
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Originally Posted by mooper View Post
Broken, or wisely aligned so that EQM/MQM activity - which is more profitable for the airline than RDM activity - is encouraged and aggressively rewarded? If Delta, a for-profit company, sees more improvement to its bottom line when someone spends $30K on one of their affinity cards than when someone flies 15K paid BIS miles, wouldn't it make sense for them to adjust their reward system accordingly?

.

I have to ask then - why not just stop playing the game (do x to get EQMs) and just sell EQMs out-right and be done with it? Then we'd finally be at a bottom line.

This is somewhat maddening to me in that I feel DL seems to think nothing of continually changing 'the deal'. Getting elite status requires a certain level of advance committment - you start out the year and expect that if you give DL your business that you're going to get a benefit package in return. Every time they create these loopholes the package is getting devalued and at this point we've all put 2/3 of the year's business into our part of the deal.
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Old Sep 3, 09, 12:38 pm
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by pmaddock View Post
I have to ask then - why not just stop playing the game (do x to get EQMs) and just sell EQMs out-right and be done with it? Then we'd finally be at a bottom line.

This is somewhat maddening to me in that I feel DL seems to think nothing of continually changing 'the deal'. Getting elite status requires a certain level of advance committment - you start out the year and expect that if you give DL your business that you're going to get a benefit package in return. Every time they create these loopholes the package is getting devalued and at this point we've all put 2/3 of the year's business into our part of the deal.
It is not just Delta. All of the majors are doing the same things, as exemplified by this thread's title, and the news that UA has followed AA's lead in the 2X bonus game. Delta is just a little ahead on the the curve it seems, as all the airlines are devaluing their FF "currencies".
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