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New DL Double or Triple QM Promo in the works? AA fires first shot

New DL Double or Triple QM Promo in the works? AA fires first shot

Old Sep 24, 09, 9:48 pm
  #346  
 
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Originally Posted by Evan! View Post
True to some degree but Amex and Avis miles are sold to Amex and Avis. They are not given away for free. The medallion bonuses are free miles from Delta to medallions. These bonuses are directly related to how many MQMs you earn. So although MQMs are not redeemable they can affect the amount of redeemable miles are out there.

If there is no cost to MQMs then why don't all airlines offer 10 elite miles per mile flown? Why do some offer only 50% accrual on certain fares? If there is no cost then why not give away more?
The points you make are good ones. But perhaps you do not recall when DL tried to give 50% miles on LUT fares. This Pavlovian strategy is designed to get people to pay twice as much for the very same airline seat... it has nothing to do with the cost of the miles. If the miles were to be distributed in a cost efficient way, it would be a dollar-based system. And a $7000 J fare would get more than 1.5 miles.

Ultimately, DL controls the rate at which these miles are redeemed. I am somewhat glib when I say there is NO cost, but as far as an MQM bonus promo, there is almost no cost.... compared to the potential for lost business.
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Old Sep 24, 09, 10:03 pm
  #347  
 
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Originally Posted by RobertS975 View Post
The points you make are good ones. But perhaps you do not recall when DL tried to give 50% miles on LUT fares. This Pavlovian strategy is designed to get people to pay twice as much for the very same airline seat... it has nothing to do with the cost of the miles. If the miles were to be distributed in a cost efficient way, it would be a dollar-based system. And a $7000 J fare would get more than 1.5 miles.

Ultimately, DL controls the rate at which these miles are redeemed. I am somewhat glib when I say there is NO cost, but as far as an MQM bonus promo, there is almost no cost.... compared to the potential for lost business.
Now we are in agreement.
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Old Sep 26, 09, 11:56 am
  #348  
 
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Simple questions...

Isn't it just possible that DL fired the first shot with the DM/rollover, etc. offer and the others are trying to offer up some kind of alternative? Did I miss AA, UA, CO, etc. meeting the new DL "enhancement"?

If the 125K level results in more than several thousand DMs, then I believe it will be little more than the PM is today. Not that I support DL staying out of this round of MQM dilution, but I think that it is trying to protect its new product and rollover strategy.

In my last 10 segments, DL was at 95% capacity or greater and there were long lists for upgrades.
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Old Sep 26, 09, 1:55 pm
  #349  
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Originally Posted by BravoZulu View Post
Simple questions...

Isn't it just possible that DL fired the first shot with the DM/rollover, etc. offer and the others are trying to offer up some kind of alternative?
Not possible with regard to AA unless AA has 20/20 (or better) vision into the future and knew what DL was going to do even before DL publicly hinted or announced the status miles rollover benefit. And UA and CO's responses were timed as responses to AA's action.

[If AA had perfect future vision, then AA would be and should have been profitable forever.]
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Old Sep 26, 09, 8:15 pm
  #350  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Not possible with regard to AA unless AA has 20/20 (or better) vision into the future and knew what DL was going to do even before DL publicly hinted or announced the status miles rollover benefit. And UA and CO's responses were timed as responses to AA's action.
I just cannot agree on the timing. The cards were face up.

Jeff released the 2010 program details here on 7/28. I viewed AA's response as slow (it took a month for its return salvo, i.e., 9/2). I believe that the AA approach results in a dilution of status more for the mid tiers rather than the upper tiers. It certainly didn't take long for UA and others to match AA because the programming was similar to the MQM/EQM giveaways earlier in the year. If AA and others start some of the new DL enhancements, only then do I believe that DL would need to provide some token to remain competitive with its elites.

I certainly would not turn down MQM bonuses (it may help get me realize that the PM and DM levels are not out of reach), but, if DM is to be truly meaningful, then there should only be a small population of DMs.

If, as a result of not returning the salvo, some DL elites elect to "run to the ball," then their loyalty status will be impaired. That is their prerogative; just as stopping at 124,999 MQMs is their prerogative, but I don't get it. In my circles, I repeatedly share my view that the GM level is the most significant change in status. Only if DL elites are assured of maintaining DM status for the foreseeable future would split loyalties make sense to me. If others want to get out of my way when it comes to upgrades, then I refuse to stop them.
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Old Sep 26, 09, 8:41 pm
  #351  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Here's where that was going:


3. DL management seems to prefer:

(a) elite status customers who don't earn a lot of redeemable miles from flying

over

(b) elite status customers who earn a lot of redemable miles from flying.
...or the answer could be "C":

(c) elite status customers that provide a profit to a for-profit company moreso than folks that are gaming a system on loss-leader fares to obtain a status which they don't rightfully deserve. Thank you Delta for not matching the promo & allowing the ranks to swell even more than they have already. Here is one elite that appreciates it.

Last edited by bubbashow; Sep 26, 09 at 8:50 pm
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Old Sep 27, 09, 10:36 am
  #352  
 
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Originally Posted by BravoZulu View Post
Simple questions...

Isn't it just possible that DL fired the first shot with the DM/rollover, etc. offer and the others are trying to offer up some kind of alternative? Did I miss AA, UA, CO, etc. meeting the new DL "enhancement"? ...
I actually think that DL did fire the first shot by aggressively going after the occasional flier and the "potentially Silver" flier, and that the other airlines are now reacting. Below is one of my previous posts:

Originally Posted by DP-340 View Post
For sometime now I am convinced that the DL promotions are targeted to occasional FF. Especially:

  • The aggressive marketing of the AMEX-DL card (that allows you to keep miles from expiring and provides MQMs)
  • Rollover miles (if you have trouble keeping FO, a few thousand miles from the year before really help)
  • MQM promotions that do nothing to the 125k+ flier (arguably it even devalues the upper medallion classes)
  • receiving a gift FO, etc.

I don't have any data to back up the following statement. But I think that DL has seen a huge increase in Silvers. Hence, a potentially large crowd of "loyal" fliers. I did an informal survey among my family/friends among the "occasional fliers". I was surprised to see how loyal they were! The things they would do to keep a few miles from not expiring, etc. ...

What the UA/AA/CO/US offers are doing is in IMHO really smart. They are making many "low fliers" into new elites (the same group that DL has been aggressively going after). However, at the same time they are attracting some unhappy high elites from DL and others.

I think that we are seeing the beginning of a battle. Will it work? I don't know but UA/AA/CO/US cannot let a big group of occasional fliers go to DL and become FOs.

IMO, the next battle will be with DM/ExP/1k. I can just imagine the day when UA gives 1k status match to DMs and vice-versa...
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Old Sep 27, 09, 11:09 am
  #353  
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Originally Posted by bubbashow View Post
...or the answer could be "C":
It can't be that. I didn't ask a question.

Originally Posted by bubbashow
(c) elite status customers that provide a profit to a for-profit company moreso than folks that are gaming a system on loss-leader fares to obtain a status which they don't rightfully deserve. Thank you Delta for not matching the promo & allowing the ranks to swell even more than they have already. Here is one elite that appreciates it.
DL management is pretty lousy at knowing how to make a profit, even as "for-profit" is indeed its mythical objective.

As DL doesn't know how to reliably achieve a real profit stream, no reason to think that DL knows how to reliably distinguish a "loss-leader" fare/fare-buying customer from a non-"loss-leader" fare/fare-buying customer.
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Old Sep 27, 09, 11:14 am
  #354  
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From previous post..

If AA gave a status match to EXP from DM AA would get so many DM's it would not even be funny. If they gave free upgrades for their middle tier and lowest tiers than DL would be looking at liquidation.

With a thread here about 30 or more people on upgrade list I'm not even sure the future for FO and maybe even GM would make any sense. Other than some routing requirements free upgrades is the only real benefit. Awards are horrible, top tier SWU's are horrible, etc. Heck, I just got an offer to upgrade my DL card to nest one and up to 40,000 MQM.

I remember in 1996 when I first made Gold (lowest tier on AA) how excited I was. Now DL give it away and sure a first time FO is excited, but they are going to find out with DL it is not so special. Everyone has it and DL does not even give faster security for most locations.

The good thing for DL AA is not going to comp EXP or give free upgrades for lower tiers.
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Old Sep 27, 09, 11:14 am
  #355  
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Originally Posted by DP-340 View Post
I actually think that DL did fire the first shot by aggressively going after the occasional flier and the "potentially Silver" flier, and that the other airlines are now reacting. Below is one of my previous posts:
While there is still the issue of time frame(s) and something like time-adjusted weighting, what you note makes far more sense than the unsubstantiated assumption and/or presumed conclusion that AA's DEQM promotion was AA responding to DL's Diamond-tier and rollover benefit announcement.

An AApologist could say that DL's "rollover" benefit announcement was a response to AA's historical practice of systematically allowing for soft-drops in elite status for customers who achieved or exceeded the qualification/requalification number. That kind of airline apologist talk would be just as much without merit too.
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Old Sep 27, 09, 2:47 pm
  #356  
 
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Originally Posted by thepla View Post
If AA gave a status match to EXP from DM AA would get so many DM's it would not even be funny...
I agree! Same for 1k

Originally Posted by thepla View Post
... I remember in 1996 when I first made Gold (lowest tier on AA) how excited I was. Now DL give it away and sure a first time FO is excited, but they are going to find out with DL it is not so special. Everyone has it and DL does not even give faster security for most locations...
When you are FO the very occasional upgrade, the waived luggage fee, etc., are really exciting! You fell so clever, and the idea comes up "it would be even better if I was GM"... It is always amazing to me, how much people will spend for something "free".
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Old Sep 27, 09, 4:49 pm
  #357  
 
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A promotion that DL will never match this year. Isn't it time to kill this thread?
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Old Sep 27, 09, 5:10 pm
  #358  
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Originally Posted by skchin View Post
A promotion that DL will never match this year. Isn't it time to kill this thread?
Not in my opinion. There's still about a quarter of the year left for DL management to do or not do as it fancies. Even after that, some might want to tap into this thread.

DL clearly has shown it's resistant to the idea of following the kind of elite-status fasttrack promos that AA, CO, UA and US are having currently, but this game isn't over yet.

It would be interesting to find out how easy it is this year and early next year for known DL customers -- including particularly those who don't fly a lot ..... not even enough on any airline to get the lowest elite status -- to end up with DL Platinum or even DL Diamond status going forward.

DL management seems to think DL is just as well or better off with (a) a big base of infrequent flyers with frequent flyer elite status than with (b) a big base of frequent flyers with elite status. It would make at least some sense if DL were in the business of getting out of the airline business, but given DL management's acquisition behavior as of late they sure seem to like to gamble.

Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 27, 09 at 5:15 pm
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Old Sep 27, 09, 6:09 pm
  #359  
 
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Originally Posted by skchin View Post
A promotion that DL will never match this year. Isn't it time to kill this thread?
Wait, but I thought the consensus was that DL is just waiting until the programs are joined to announce their 2x (no, wait 4x) E(M)QM promotion. Right? Right??



Hey, where's everybody going?
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Old Oct 5, 09, 10:51 am
  #360  
 
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Double Miles/MQM showing for 10/28 flight??

Originally Posted by GBadger View Post
Wait, but I thought the consensus was that DL is just waiting until the programs are joined to announce their 2x (no, wait 4x) E(M)QM promotion. Right? Right??



Hey, where's everybody going?
I just went to plan a flight for late October (DAY-ATL-SEA same day MR). When I get to the "Verify and Purchase" screen, it shows 10724 R/T miles and MQMs (2x for both from the actual miles).

Is this a glitch or has Delta finally gotten on the 2x MQM bandwagon nwo that SM and WP are combined?
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