DLroads

There are several technological constraints that would make it impossible (aka- have you tried fixing the award features/upgrade feature/search feature...)
While it would have been useful, I doubt that DL (with the system merging needs) can allocate source to begin "double booking" MQMs (rolled over versus non-roller over MQM.) While I can see how to program it in any open source package, I guess DL's system is one that is sitting on a major frame and needs to maintain millions of records. It just not going to happen.

So, if that's the thing that stops DL from matching the campaign, we can forget it. Will not take place.

But, DL- show me the MQM love! we want a match! we want a match today!

dukieee

Lol - it's funny that the same question (numbers of elites) comes up on every board every few months... With the same kind of answer.
But seriously, it's interesting that we don't actually get those numbers, even though we have so much information on everything else. How come? Airlines clearly have reasons not to disclose the numbers, i.e., to reduce the perceived "competition for upgrades". At the same time, I could see why they would want to disclose the numbers, e.g., to show investors how many truly loyal customers they have, or, if the numbers are lower than most outsiders think, to show that the competition for upgrades is not quite so bad...
Does the fact that they DON'T disclose the numbers tell us something about what the numbers actually look like?

browell

Ahhh, one of the great unanswered questions. Ranks right up there with the OTHER biggie - "Exactly WHAT are the requirements for WHITE ENVELOPE (for DL) or GLOBAL SERVICES (for UA)

There's a better chance of getting the government to tell us "How many licks to the center of the Tootsie Pop?"

wb9tio

There's a better chance of getting the government to tell us "How many licks to the center of the Tootsie Pop?" [/QUOTE]

That's easy, thhrrree. Trust me I work for the guv'ment.

pbd456

it seems that DL really does not care so much about double eqm.

anyways. once i use up all my ECV, i am saying goodbye to DL. i want to stay, but the program just isnt competitive enough for international flyer comparing to *A, especially CO.

pbarnette

I have to ask, in what way is CO markedly better for the international flyer. I ask this seriously. I am someone that flies internationally almost exclusively, and I left CO because it wasn't competitive. This is especially true when you look beyond the published "benefits" and consider the difference in comfort between CO Y and DL Y. What does CO bring to the table that DL doesn't?

For the 50k to 74k international flier, then CO may now be a better option, due to lounge *G at 50k, but for the 75k+ flier? I just don't see it.

FWIW, bear in mind that I will probably make CO my primary *A program. I've already gotten my Plat match. What I don't see, though, is any compelling reason to shift a substantial amount of my traffic to CO/*A. If there is something I am missing, I would love to hear it.

GTITAN

I will take a shot, and it may not be enough to sway any business, but as of now, these are the major differences at the two programs.

Probably the most compelling part of CO's program at the Plat level now is the soon to have ability to change, deposit, redeposit, etc award tickets that is reserved for Diamond only on DL. Also, the partners in *A some suggest are better than ST (I know YMMV, and I also know about the less than favorable elite bonus earning across the partners on *A). You also with the use of the ANA tool get a much more transparent view of award availability (I am going to imagine now that CO's award availability will become easier to see).

I know your internationally based and I also know CO's sometimes miserable upgrade experience, but having said that, domestically Platinum companions on day of departure trump others at the airport and there's no fare restriction.

Up until the 2010 changes to the CO Plat program, I was in total agreement that Plat on DL-NW was generally more generous in benefits to CO's Plat. I don't think so now. Of course, reasonable people can disagree. YMMV.

Be Well Sir!!
GT

pbarnette

I just wonder how big this is. A 75k Plat earns enough to book one or two itineraries per year. I just don't see the need to change them so often as to incur significant charges with DL. I'm sure some will find instances where they will gain or lose, but I just don't see this as a real issue, and see it more as an imagined/assumed issue.

I agree that some *A partners are better, but for a US-based traveler, I don't buy it. SQ and TG are no better represented than KE. And trading LH/LX for AF/KL? Seems like a wash to me. The only major gain would seem to be F redemptions.


I don't care about CO's upgrade %s, though I agree they are almost certainly worse than DL;s. My issue is that the OP made the statement that CO clearly beat DL for the international traveler. Has the OP ever sat in a CO 752 coach seat? Even with AVOD, it is among the worst seats across the Atlantic. Just awful. And this is the backbone of the CO TATL network. The backbone. Not a fall-back position. Without the 752, CO doesn't have a TATL network. Every time I fly an A330 it is $300 in my pocket. Even when I fly a 763, it is $200 in my pocket. CO TATL Y is that bad

GTITAN

[QUOTE=pbarnette;12371196] Where the fee free deposit comes in is to book and get your preferred routing, dates and times. I understand your point that for many this is not all that big an issue, but I do believe that DL-NW said it was big enough that they were taking it away from Plats for use/misuse. I grant YMMV, but it must be of some import given DL-NW gives it only to Diamond.

You also miss AC and NZ which are two pretty good carriers IMHO. Depending on how things shake with JAL, *A has better coverage over Oceania and Asia than ST. I tend to agree that it is a wash in Europe. In Africa, it might be a push, but SAA is supposed to be quite good.

Now I have done CO in Y TATL, and you're right it is really not very pleasant. Wouldn't even attempt to argue the point. The A330's are generally a much better ride in Y (done that a time or two myself). Was just trying to point out some areas where I think the new Plat offering by CO trump NW-DL as you asked. Appreciate the debate and good cheer as always!!

Safe Travels

PaulMSN

You are assuming that Plats are only earning flight miles, but both years I was Plat with NW, I earned more non-flight miles. Also, on international itineraries with multiple segments, it sometimes is useful to book a routing that isn't quite what you want and then wait until the segments you do want become available. This may require multiple changes over several months -- if we are charged change or redeposit fees, it becomes less useful a process.

thepla

My opinion anyone that flies mostly international is making a bad decision with DL or even NW before. The best benefit is free upgrades on domestic routes. Let's forget anything else, that is why the sLUT issues of years ago put almost everyone at DL in outrage. This is of course looking at it from a FFP perspective. For some the route and convenience surely can play a factor to ride on DL.

The other thing that DL does in terms of a FFP program that is a hard pill to swallow is ease of use to get an award at lowest rates. I know people here say DL's awards are so easy to get, just be flexible,but in my experience (I have 3 MM points lifetime on AA and almost 3 MM points lifetime on NW / DL) and in my experience it is way easier to use standard miles on AA than DL.

The last thing for 75+ and over fliers is SWU's. On AA they are like gold, there is a limitation that they are good on AA metal. I may get to Europe in BC but from there I'm on my own. BUT compared to DL's which you need M/B/Y and to make it worse you need DL to open them up. I think it is a shame to ask someone to pay 3 to 4 times the price (compared to using one on AA) and hope they issue the famous "Z" class. It is nice than they are at least allowing the BC seats to be filled day of travel but for me that is too big a crap shoot.

AA and CO and I believe now UA allow upgrades with a co-pay on ANY fare. I do think the price between lowest fare and "M" fare can comparable with co-pay but very very few times. It has become way less of a close total pay now that DL has played with "M" fares to Europe.

Once again for international only travelers, looking at it from FFP both upgrades and using miles, it is substantially better to ride on CO or AA and soon to be UA (which we should not forget about E+ seating for those trips in coach).

Dovster

I am certain you are right but I was answering the assertion that people (like myself) who reach PM because of these promos, and without flying very much, will be making the upgrade competition much more difficult.

If we don't do a lot of domestic flying we simply won't be in a position to get many upgrades.

DP-340

If the DL award's search engine worked well and the availability of "low awards" was better, I would agree with you. In my case I often booked high/medium awards with poor connections 6-month early and then made changes during the last 45-days prior to our family vacations...

duchy

I'm strugg;ing with the should I go back to AA or stick with Delta quandry.
On paper for the flying I do it's a no-brainer AA is the better deal-easier awards at better levels and co-pay to business with miles-but I far prefer the service I get with Delta and the style of service they offer.

AA have opened the door for me returning with the latest promotion if Delta match the promotion then it equalizes without the match then it's economics versus style of service (my routes are served equally well by both although Delta has the edge with Gatwick). If I put my sensible head on then I return to AA-if I go for the better all around experience I stick with Delta.

Ah decisions, decisions-a match in promotions would definitely help.

GVA

IMHO the fact that Delta are not matching is starting to make me look at CO even more carefully. CO have clearly solved the few flaws their program had and I think it's a dangerous tactic for DL not to match as in my case I'm thinking of running to CO and not coming back to DL.