How ridiculous. I'd love to see a fair and balanced version of this same chart. Come on Jeff, just admit some of the other carriers have you beat in some certain categories. Any 'comparison chart' that has one consistent winner is inherently suspect in my opinion...

Use them on the non-eligible flights, those lovely RJ's out of CVG...

That was discussed early in this thread, someone was going to try to create an excel spreadsheet including the old NW program, the old DL program with threshold benefits, and whatever might have been missing or overlooked from the official DL chart. It would be a good point of reference to settle some of the debate.

The chart does seem strange at first glance. Any existing elite at AA, UA, or CO, particularly in the top tier, should have deep enough knowledge of their current program not to be seriously tempted to change.

That means the chart must really only be there to target the existing DL and NW elite members, to convince them there's no reason to even investigate alternatives. It's classic defensive marketing.

I am down to a little over 1 million on DL. Too bad DL put in this position considering I always hoped there would be more miles for retirement. Thanks again DL.

While DL management may have anticipated some disappointment with DM, I'm guessing they miscalculated the magnatude of the dissatifaction as well as the unintended consequence of having many PMs/future DMs be fully educated on competing FFer programs.

As a consumer of travel services, I am glad for this information. However, were I in DLs management, I wouldn't want an announcement of a highly anticipated and touted new loyalty program for my best customers to result in those same customers reevaluating whether they should continue with DL. Capitalism is good, but I can't imagine an airline in any environment intentionally giving their most frequent flyers reasons to consider a competing airline, especially not with the announcement of a new elite program that was intended to increase loyaly.

I am not convinced the couple dozen unhappy FT members posting in these treads are representative of DL's elite plus population. Many FF don't or can't give any airline exclusivity and enjoy benefits from multiple FF plans. Some FT posters get a little dramatic, some can't get past the merger, while others cite plans benefits from other carriers without the current BIS experience to understand the caveats that go with those benefits.

I have customers that evaluate the solutions available, then release an RFP asking for a product that combines the top proprietary features from 3 manufactures. It may be what would best suit their unique requirement, unfortunately no one can provide it and at the end of the day they still have to pick one of the existing solutions based on what best fits their requirements.

My own evaluation of AA didn't result from the creation of the DM level, it is something I do from time to time. UA and US route maps suck for me so I don't give them the same mindspace. I once again ran some reward examples, ran some actual itins I have booked and attempted to sort through the FUD in the forums to understand the caveats. For me DL still comes out ahead, as it did before DM was announced. DM adds a few things without removing any benefits that I had before, YMMV. Would it be even better with more? Sure it would! More is usually better.

Bottom line... every one is unique. Find the solution that best meets your needs and move on to more important things in life.

Day of departure upgrades are a plus IF you are already ticketed on a YBM fare due to either last minute travel or no Saturday night stay. The fares that are eligible for upgrade with either a PMU or lots of miles are already much higher than the lowest coach fare, in most instances. As someone else has stated, a $350-400 surcharge per BE leg could be justified, but not a surcharge of $1000 per leg plus PMU or mileage.

I will either buy I fares, or the lowest coach fare and hope for an operational upgrade. As I said, the benefit of day of departure Z upgrades comes when you were forced to buy a YBM fare in the first place. It will allow a high fare revenue passenger to get those BE seats instead of clearing non-revs off the standby list.

That may very well be the point of the change since DL well knows that there will not be more than one or two (if any) late purchasers who actually will be able (and know) to take advantage of the new benefit so that there will not be any "tarnishing the integrity" of the front cabin (as they fill the rest of it up with non-revs). :rolleyes:

FF programs, and airline ticketing in general, are very complex. Historically very few pax attained more than a cursory understanding, and the complexity served the airlines well. Thanks to consumer communication advances such as FT, we are now able to combine lots of pax brains and experiences together and quickly parse these systems. In some cases, we can understand the systems and all their permutations more than did those who designed the systems. Examples are the quick uncovering here of the weaknesses in the new DL system (such as not rolling over segments, or the flaws in the PMU). To some degree they certainly anticipated our capabilities, but probably not the magnitude of it.

The game has changed in the past few years, largely due to social media.

No, but this does represent the leading edge, and the information does disperse quickly.

That does happen here; some people will never be happy, but I think a lot of us would agree with your next statement:

I feel they came close, but no cigar. Just 10% more, perhaps only 5% more, would have been a best in class program. So near and yet so far away. That 5% difference is very visible to us on FT, and by extension will be visible both to lots of other high mileage pax and to lots of other high value pax (those two are not always the same, despite the self image of some of us).

I read this here at the FT universe is quite small compared to DL't elite + population, etc.

If this is TOTALLY true, it maybe in this case, how and why did saveskymiles get started? I was not here at that time but as time goes by and word of mouth etc. what DL does surely can spread way out from here.

Getting 50% on LUT, etc. surely started at a place like this and really spread. What abut the losing of 50% bonus on Y/B/M fares? Surely that was a few here, my guess even less than the uproar with this latest stupid decision, DL backed down in that one. I'm not trying to sound like sour grades, seriously I'm not, but wasn't Y/B/M fares the only real issue removed from the SM world that did not actually take money from the bottom line? Funny how that one came back. This one surely was mostly known by places like FT and not by the ST+ only population.

If DL actually monitors accounts and see people stopping cold turkey at 75,000, like I did in May, or high volume flyers stopping cold turkey at 120,000 miles they will get the hint. If we get lucky Jeff will find out the hard way what it is like to dream up a loyalty program that actually loses loyalty, this one should be in the Harvard business review.

It seems DL believes their FC, BC, is best in class. That is evident by taking LUT fares away, not having good SWU's, they think they are losing out on revenue, why else would they severely limit awards and "Z" class? Don't they realize that losing customers is the same as lost revenue, especially high volume customers.

Who in their right mind would buy a FC seat on DL? Heck on AA they serve hot nuts, ice cream, etc on their transcon flights. On DL, from what I've read here they don't ever serve anything hot domestically.

One other thing DL over looks with SWU's that matter.

Let's say someone is totally committed to AA now and enough to DM to get to that level but decide rollover makes sense since they will start at Silver and pretty close to Gold.

If they gave SWU's that count they would have to actually buy a ticket to use them; they are not available to use on an award.

Therefore anyone that stops short or leaves after acquiring enough status to avoid DM but stay at PM is leaving money on the table.

Did I ever say Jeff found a loyalty program that does not promote loyalty. Good Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the end studies suggest a loyalty program only consist of around 5-10% of a consumers decision which airline to fly. Around 70% is network driven.

The way big airlines operate ff programs these days is as seperate businesses. When UA went into chapter 11 the only profitable part was their ff program. So when they have the opportunity to reduce the value of their outstanding miles it is good business. It is like printing money without significant repercussions, and as long as all airlines do it even better.

I've enjoyed a great warm meal on some domestic F on DL, last time was on July 17. Sometimes it is a cold sandwich with a yummie brownie.

I've read that AA planes are dirty and disgusting Why the filthy planes AA thread

Lets not turn this into a stone throwing contest if you haven't been BIS.

I do not have the facts to prove or disprove you.

Am I the only one that spent more money or had to drive a few hours to get from an airport to stay loyal when another carrier flew to a closer airport or with less connections?

I believe in the airline industry most people that are elite will fly their chosen airline as much as possible. I gave a silver membership away to a business partner one year that never flew NW in his life. For that year never flew another airline again. Since he was under 25,000 miles he is back to best price for an airfare.

If I am correct an elite customer, that takes their business somewhere else is lost for many years.

Which study?

For most consumers who are in non-hub cities, there are multiple airline networks that are options.