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Compensation: “Bumps” — Voluntary and Involuntary Denied Boarding

Compensation: “Bumps” — Voluntary and Involuntary Denied Boarding

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Old Nov 30, 18, 9:55 am   -   Wikipost
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My (LoganFlyer's) guide to maximizing your bump chances on Delta:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30484249-post1713.html

(The concise version:

1. Use the App to see if more people are looking for seats than there are seats available. As part of the Customer Commitment, gate agents, phone res agents, and tickets agents must tell you if a flight is overbooked if you ask. (They don't need to say by how many seats.)
2. Do everything you can to get on the volunteer list through OLCI or a kiosk at the airport, since some GAs use that list.
3. Talk to the GA as soon as the gate opens up--don't wait for them to make an announcement.
4. Don't be afraid to negotiate with the GA.)
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Old Sep 26, 18, 1:43 pm
  #1651  
 
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Originally Posted by amejr999 View Post
Looks like Delta is significantly reducing the number of oversales. The new DOT report came out with data for Q2:

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...-2018-atcr.pdf

The VDB rate dropped by roughly half compared to last year-- 0.05% of passengers VDB'd this year compared to 0.11% last year (mainline only). Bummer!
Time to switch back to United for those that like to VDB.... I went on an 18 month drought (flying 150 segments a year on average) on UA VDB's, but starting this summer, I have scored one every 2 weeks or so on average (latest one was today for a proactive downgrade for $600 on a 2 hour flight). In general, I see more and more UA flights asking and taking volunteers at the DEN hub......... maybe they are finally starting to allow the statistical calculations to slack a bit to generate some additional revenue.

Not sure why DL would take the other approach... but then again, DL is giving away hard currency by giving out these gift cards and AMEX cards vs. UA giving funny munny that largely goes unused... and even if it is used, UA is banking beacuse the operating costs for tickets purchased with those vouchers is lower than the value of those tickets (or they would be out of business, right?!?).

Interesting dynamics here... and I'm actually shocked that DL gives away so much $$ in gift cards... I guess it's starting to hit their budget pretty hard.
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Old Sep 26, 18, 4:43 pm
  #1652  
 
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Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
Not sure why DL would take the other approach...
What are you deeming the "other" approach? The report merely shows the rate of IDB, right? So we don't know if that means they are booking less aggressively, or if they simply got better at predicting no shows?

Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
but then again, DL is giving away hard currency by giving out these gift cards and AMEX cards vs. UA giving funny munny that largely goes unused...
gift card spoilage is a thing too...

Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
and even if it is used, UA is banking beacuse the operating costs for tickets purchased with those vouchers is lower than the value of those tickets (or they would be out of business, right?!?).
I'm not sure I follow what you mean here either.
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Old Sep 26, 18, 9:27 pm
  #1653  
 
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Originally Posted by Zorak View Post
What are you deeming the "other" approach? The report merely shows the rate of IDB, right? So we don't know if that means they are booking less aggressively, or if they simply got better at predicting no shows?


I'm not sure I follow what you mean here either.
The "other approach" being the one where they slow down oversale booking (which comes at the sacrifice of revenue as more flights go with open seats as a result).

The second part you didn't follow... I should have explained more clearly.... UA funny munny (i.e. travel credits) is a far more profitable approach than DL giving away AMEX gift cards, Amazon cards, etc. etc. etc.... the reason for this is that even though they give me, let's say, $300 travel credit, UA's cost when I use that ticket is strictly the operating cost to transport me from point A to point B. In many instances, I would use that for a closer-in booking in a more expensive fare class. In this case, UA's operating cost doesn't change, but I have to use the whole voucher... therefore, UA gets my voucher while providing me a fairly minimal service. Though the voucher was worth $300 to me because I would likely have spent money out of pocket otherwise, it is worth far less than $300 to UA.
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Old Sep 27, 18, 1:16 am
  #1654  
 
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Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
The "other approach" being the one where they slow down oversale booking (which comes at the sacrifice of revenue as more flights go with open seats as a result).
OK, but as I said, I think we don't know whether the numbers as shown mean they did what you're saying, or whether they simply did a better job accurately predicting the no-show rate.

Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
The second part you didn't follow... I should have explained more clearly.... UA funny munny (i.e. travel credits) is a far more profitable approach than DL giving away AMEX gift cards, Amazon cards, etc. etc. etc.... the reason for this is that even though they give me, let's say, $300 travel credit, UA's cost when I use that ticket is strictly the operating cost to transport me from point A to point B. In many instances, I would use that for a closer-in booking in a more expensive fare class. In this case, UA's operating cost doesn't change, but I have to use the whole voucher... therefore, UA gets my voucher while providing me a fairly minimal service. Though the voucher was worth $300 to me because I would likely have spent money out of pocket otherwise, it is worth far less than $300 to UA.
Got it, thanks for spelling it out for me
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Old Sep 27, 18, 2:48 am
  #1655  
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Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
Time to switch back to United for those that like to VDB....
Did you even look at the data in amejr999's link? Delta had a 34% higher rate of VDB than United.
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Old Sep 27, 18, 7:12 am
  #1656  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
Did you even look at the data in amejr999's link? Delta had a 34% higher rate of VDB than United.
This is true (actually DL was around 46% higher than UA during the first 6 months of this year when comparing VDB to total pax)... but if they tighten the ropes on their statistical models like UA did last year, VDB's will be tougher to come by.... though I think DL would find more value in switching back to offering travel credits vs. giving away cold hard cash in the forms of these gift cards (which I would never complain about and would take ANY DAY over travel credits).

With Dr. Dao in the past now, and compensation programs modified so that much larger travel credits and gift cards are able to be given away by gate agents, IDB's are incredibly rare, evidenced by this consumer protection report, compared to the past (when I witnessed far more IDB's take place at various airports - was rare to see a VDB certificate greater than $400 in those days).... since Dr. Dao, I have not seen another IDB in person on UA, and the data shows less than 100 took place all year this year.

Anyway... too many tangents here.... just happy to see more VDB taking place on UA... and would hope that things don't tighten up on DL because I will fly a LOT of DL next year after my relocation to FL, and I would like to dip into some of those gift cards!!
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Old Oct 2, 18, 9:36 pm
  #1657  
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Originally Posted by jjmoore View Post
The "other approach" being the one where they slow down oversale booking (which comes at the sacrifice of revenue as more flights go with open seats as a result).

The second part you didn't follow... I should have explained more clearly.... UA funny munny (i.e. travel credits) is a far more profitable approach than DL giving away AMEX gift cards, Amazon cards, etc. etc. etc.... the reason for this is that even though they give me, let's say, $300 travel credit, UA's cost when I use that ticket is strictly the operating cost to transport me from point A to point B. In many instances, I would use that for a closer-in booking in a more expensive fare class. In this case, UA's operating cost doesn't change, but I have to use the whole voucher... therefore, UA gets my voucher while providing me a fairly minimal service. Though the voucher was worth $300 to me because I would likely have spent money out of pocket otherwise, it is worth far less than $300 to UA.
Whenever I've gotten a voucher, it replaced cash spending. So a $300 voucher cost Delta $300 in revenue (less credit card fees).
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Old Oct 2, 18, 11:12 pm
  #1658  
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Originally Posted by sethb View Post
Whenever I've gotten a voucher, it replaced cash spending. So a $300 voucher cost Delta $300 in revenue (less credit card fees).
I think the point is that the voucher isn't actually costing the airline its face value. Example, you have a $300 viucher. If you buy a $1000 ticket that only costs DL $500 in actual costs, then DL didn't actually really spend/lose anything. However if they issue a gift card, they're actually spending $300.
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Old Oct 3, 18, 9:02 am
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Originally Posted by sethb View Post
Whenever I've gotten a voucher, it replaced cash spending. So a $300 voucher cost Delta $300 in revenue (less credit card fees).
You're likely right...

Every person's use is different.

For me, a voucher usually means I will take a trip I wouldn't otherwise have taken, or that I would have used miles for.... in which case it's hard to truly say that it cost the airline the full $$....

For some of us, these vouchers truly displace revenue spending (as is in your case). I have thought more about this since my original post several days ago, and I think this is a very complicated equation that likely only the statisticians working for the airline know the true revenue impact.
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Old Oct 3, 18, 6:23 pm
  #1660  
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
I think the point is that the voucher isn't actually costing the airline its face value. Example, you have a $300 viucher. If you buy a $1000 ticket that only costs DL $500 in actual costs, then DL didn't actually really spend/lose anything. However if they issue a gift card, they're actually spending $300.
If I would have paid $1000 cash without the voucher, then it costs the airline $300 (they get $700 instead of $1000 for a ticket they'd sell in either case).

The actual marginal cost is likely closer to $100, maybe less (unless the flight sells out, in which case it's $1,000).

But the vouchers get some people to fly who wouldn't otherwise, so there's typically marginal revenue, or at least only a trivial cost for them.

And I don't believe they pay full price for the gift cards, though I have no way of knowing.
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Old Oct 4, 18, 5:55 am
  #1661  
 
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Volunteers were solicited at OLCI for PHL-BOS tonight on the last flight of the evening. I put in my bid. I'm not too hopeful that I'll actually be selected though, since I'm a Gold on a Basic Economy ticket.
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Old Oct 4, 18, 7:01 am
  #1662  
 
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Originally Posted by diburning View Post
Volunteers were solicited at OLCI for PHL-BOS tonight on the last flight of the evening. I put in my bid. I'm not too hopeful that I'll actually be selected though, since I'm a Gold on a Basic Economy ticket.
I've rarely, if ever, seen BE come into play when DL selects volunteers. The GA orders volunteers either based on the amount people put in to bid (lowest bid gets priority) or they ignore that list completely and go by the order people ask them at the gate. If you really want this bump, I'd recommend getting to the gate early and asking about the oversold situation as soon as the GA opens the gate up.
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Old Oct 4, 18, 8:54 am
  #1663  
 
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Originally Posted by LoganFlyer View Post
I've rarely, if ever, seen BE come into play when DL selects volunteers. The GA orders volunteers either based on the amount people put in to bid (lowest bid gets priority) or they ignore that list completely and go by the order people ask them at the gate. If you really want this bump, I'd recommend getting to the gate early and asking about the oversold situation as soon as the GA opens the gate up.
They do not care about booking class. They will ask you whether you're in E- or first class. DL, as well as UA does not honor the list in my experience... first one to the podium usually gets it, and that's why I always show up 60 minutes prior when the GA's show up (90 minutes for int'l).
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Old Oct 4, 18, 10:14 am
  #1664  
 
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As long as my incoming AA flight isn't delayed, I think I'll be there with 2 hours to spare. Should I look up alternative flights beforehand to make it easier? Will they put me on AA? Since it's the last flight, I don't mind taking the bump if it included a hotel room either.
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Old Oct 4, 18, 11:30 am
  #1665  
 
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Originally Posted by diburning View Post
As long as my incoming AA flight isn't delayed, I think I'll be there with 2 hours to spare. Should I look up alternative flights beforehand to make it easier? Will they put me on AA? Since it's the last flight, I don't mind taking the bump if it included a hotel room either.
They will not put you on AA. They will confirm you on the next available Delta flight usually the following day. Hotel room will be comped if its an overnight.

It doesn't hurt to have some flight options in mind but usually the GA's are pretty good about getting you out ASAP after a VDB. However if you want to go tomorrow night versus tomorrow morning i'm sure they would honor this request.
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