Using SkyMiles with Alaska Airlines

Old Jan 24, 2012, 3:13 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by chunky649
Is the award inventory using delta website accurate? I.e. will it show me ALL the available award flights? Or should I do more work (look on Alaska's site and then call?)

I ask because I'm exploring the possibility of flying up to FAI (Fairbanks) to see the northern lights one weekend. I'm finding 25K (low award) flights, but the connection/arrival times are not good...
If you can get the exact dates and flights form the AS website, you can guide the DL award search (by schedule, not price) to these flights and you should be able to book online
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 3:25 pm
  #62  
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The best way to do this is to do a multi city award search for award tickets. Put in the exact dates of the individual legs of each flight into a separate line. For example, if you were going OAK-ANC, you would split it out as OAK-SEA, 6/1 then SEA-ANC on 6/1 and so forth, duplicating exactly what you see on the AS website. Also check the box for direct flights only. This will take you to a search where you need to pick the same AS flights by flight number/times, and it will price out at the level shown on the Alaska website. I believe this only works for the Super Saver (lowest level) tickets Alaska offers. Using this method I was able to book a ticket a few days ago.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 3:46 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by ryandc99
The best way to do this is to do a multi city award search for award tickets. Put in the exact dates of the individual legs of each flight into a separate line. For example, if you were going OAK-ANC, you would split it out as OAK-SEA, 6/1 then SEA-ANC on 6/1 and so forth, duplicating exactly what you see on the AS website. Also check the box for direct flights only. This will take you to a search where you need to pick the same AS flights by flight number/times, and it will price out at the level shown on the Alaska website. I believe this only works for the Super Saver (lowest level) tickets Alaska offers. Using this method I was able to book a ticket a few days ago.
Very good instructions.

I do this quite often after going to alaskaair.com first to find the exact flights and dates that award seats are available. What is shown as super saver award availability on alaskaair.com will be available using DL miles. Very very seldom do I need to call DL in order to book AS flights. Using multi-city as described above works like a charm.

Hint: sometimes alaskaair.com shows legal connections using their miles that are not legal using DL miles. So be careful. Once alaskaair.com showed something like MSP-BOI-SEA-ANC for super saver using AS miles. But that routing was not permitted using DL miles. Also, the stopover/connection rules with AS miles is more liberal/generous. So a flight MSP-SEA-ANC with a 5 hour layover in both directions found on alaskaair.com is fine if you were using AS miles, but is not OK using DL miles (since with DL any connection >4 hours is a "stopover" and you are only allowed one stopover per ticket).
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 4:11 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by fti
Very good instructions.

I do this quite often after going to alaskaair.com first to find the exact flights and dates that award seats are available. What is shown as super saver award availability on alaskaair.com will be available using DL miles. Very very seldom do I need to call DL in order to book AS flights. Using multi-city as described above works like a charm.

Hint: sometimes alaskaair.com shows legal connections using their miles that are not legal using DL miles. So be careful. Once alaskaair.com showed something like MSP-BOI-SEA-ANC for super saver using AS miles. But that routing was not permitted using DL miles. Also, the stopover/connection rules with AS miles is more liberal/generous. So a flight MSP-SEA-ANC with a 5 hour layover in both directions found on alaskaair.com is fine if you were using AS miles, but is not OK using DL miles (since with DL any connection >4 hours is a "stopover" and you are only allowed one stopover per ticket).
Do you know if you can book award tickets with Era Aviation? (Into Kodiak?) I haven't tried one yet, but I was planning to later, and I was curious if this was allowed/required a phone call etc.

Edit: I just tried a dummy booking and it wouldn't let me. Is this possible with a phone call?
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 4:16 pm
  #65  
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Originally Posted by mtkeller
Welcome to FT!

AS is one of the few partners that you an book on the DL website. Note that you don't want to use the flexible date search/award calendar, as that will only search DL flights. If you can find a flight on the AS site at the saver pricing level, then you can book it with your DL miles on DL.dumb. Do search by schedule and select the flights you found on the AS site. You'll be charged the DL mileage rate for your route at the low price band if you only use AS flights.
Yes, one of the FEW. Would be nice to have more.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 5:28 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by ryandc99
Do you know if you can book award tickets with Era Aviation? (Into Kodiak?) I haven't tried one yet, but I was planning to later, and I was curious if this was allowed/required a phone call etc.

Edit: I just tried a dummy booking and it wouldn't let me. Is this possible with a phone call?
Not possible. You can use partners but not partners of partners. However, I have flown to Kodiak before using DL miles and am doing it again in July. There are usually 2 flights a day with AS-operated equipment. And if you find availability, you can fly to ANC one day, "stopover", then fly later to ADQ. On the return we have ADQ-ANC-SEA-MSP with no layover >4 hours so it is all done on one award ticket.

Wish I could use miles to book the charter floatplane we booked in Kodiak to get us to a Forest Service cabin in the Kodiak NWR.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 6:22 pm
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Just call DL. I had a great Chisholm agent last night who spent about 30 minutes exploring all of the Alaska availability for me over a 6 week period until we found seats (which we did). She told me that they can only offer Alaska seats at low mileage. I managed 2-F transcon reservations at 45K/each...80K on DL metal w/ connection or 40K in coach. For a quick 10th anniversary trip, it was miles well spent.

Also, about a month ago, I was seeing lots of Alaska availability at delta.com. That isn't the case any longer in my experience. The Chisholm agent said they even have to log into a different system to search/book Alaska flights.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 6:34 pm
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Pardon the interruption - but in addition to the free tools (as.com and dl.com), you can also enlist the services of a well known paid site- expert flyer.

In my experience, the Alaska availability and alerts are spot on - and have gotten me more than one F seat on desired non-stops
For me, the membership fee is money well spent
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 7:28 pm
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me too. I was going to fly to SEA with a purchased ticket, but then use miles to go SEA-FAI or even BRW (via Deadhorse of course)
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 9:39 pm
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Originally Posted by goodandclassy
Pardon the interruption - but in addition to the free tools (as.com and dl.com), you can also enlist the services of a well known paid site- expert flyer.

In my experience, the Alaska availability and alerts are spot on - and have gotten me more than one F seat on desired non-stops
For me, the membership fee is money well spent
Wow, awesome tip!
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 7:49 am
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I spent far too much time yesterday trying to get my wife and me to Fairbanks on an award and can shed some more light on getting there using Skymiles.

I finally got frustrated enough that I took a very methodical approach testing specific scenarios until I'd sussed out the rules that kept triggering 50k+/person (even 90k) tickets in economy. The Delta agents on the diamond line tried to be helpful and gave a few tips but never could give me a complete explanation.

PROBLEM - Mixed Fare Classes
An element mentioned here but perhaps not totally clear is that when you mix in a medium/high segment on Delta with a Low on Alaska, the fare breaks. For example:
MSY-MSP(DL LOW)-ANC(DL MED)-FAI(AS LOW) / FAI-ANC(AS LOW)-MSP(DL LOW)-MSY(DL MED) would price as:

Fare 1:
MSY-MSP-ANC @ DL MEDIUM = 20k.
ANC-MSP-MSY @ DL MEDIUM = 20k.

Fare 2:
ANC-FAI @ AS LOW = 12.5k
FAI-ANC @ AS LOW = 12.5k.

Total: 65k/person.

PROBLEM - 6 Segment Limit
I don't think the 6 segment award limit has been mentioned here. This is a major problem when you are in a Delta spoke and need to reach an Alaska spoke. In other words, MSY to HUB to HUB to FAI is my route. Given that FAI is only served from SEA and ANC and that anything more than 4 hours is a stopover, this is a major routing challenge. By the way, I cannot find this referenced anywhere... Delta's web site seems to say nothing about a 6 segment limit and blogs all say 8 segments. In this case, it seems like a hard rule but I haven't tested whether it's a general rule for award tickets, an award to US domestic tickets, or a byproduct of the Alaska airlines partnership.

Let's say you go to 8 segments all in LOW (to avoid the problem above), as in:
MSY-MEM(DL LOW)-SEA(DL LOW)-ANC(DL LOW)-FAI(AS LOW) / FAI-ANC(AS LOW)-MSP(DL LOW)-ATL(DL LOW)-MSY(DL LOW).

It prices as two fares again. This time it's:
Fare 1:
MSY-MEM-SEA-ANC in DL LOW = 12.5k.
ANC-MSP-ATL-MSY in DL LOW = 12.5k.

Fare 2:
ANC-FAI in AS LOW = 12.5k.
FAI-ANC in AS LOW = 12.5k.

TOTAL = 50k/person in all low.

SAVING GRACE - Stopover
Coming from a reasonably well served Delta spoke (MSY), it's still difficult to line up 3 segments in all low on a time line that actually works. Without a stopover, it appeared that MSY-MSP-ANC-FAI is the only 3-segment outbound route that could EVER work without a stopover. Once I added in a stopover, many more routes through Seattle or Anchorage opened up with 4+ hour stops.

The timetables for returns were modestly better without using a stopover. Your route timings in other Delta spokes may vary of course.

Example:
MSY-ATL(DL LOW)-SEA(DL LOW - stopover)-FAI(AS LOW) / FAI-ANC(AS LOW)-MSP(DL LOW)-MSY(DL LOW)

Prices at 25k/person since it's all LOW and 6 or fewer segments and uses only one stopover.

FALL BACK STRATEGY - Open-jaw
If you just cannot find 6 segments in low that line up, a fall back strategy is to use 7 segments to price it as an open-jaw with an extra segment.

E.g.:
MSY-MSP (DL LOW)-SEA(DL LOW)-ANC(DL LOW)-FAI(AS LOW)
FAI-SEA(AS LOW)-MSP(DL LOW)-MSY(DL LOW).

This prices as an open-jaw + an extra segment:
MSY-MSP-SEA-ANC in LOW = 12.5k.
FAI-SEA-MSP-MSY in LOW = 12.5k.
Delta will add the extra segment of ANC-FAI at 12.5k.

(Of course, you could also just use 12.5k AA or 7.5k AS miles to book ANC-FAI as a one-way award but we all know those miles are more valuable than DL, right?)

TOTAL = 37.5k/person.

GETTING CREATIVE
All those theoretical exercises finally established the rules that I needed to operate within. While Delta.com shows NO possible award routes from New Orleans to Fairbanks (though it can find a couple returns), I know that it fails to find lots of options so here's what I put together:

MSY-MSP(DL MED)-ANC(DL MED) - Medium with no stopovers = 20k DL.
ANC-FAI(AS LOW) - Effectively a stopover since it's the next day but no pricing issues since it's booked separately = 7.5k AS.
FAI-ANC(AS LOW)-MSP(DL LOW - 12 hour stopover)-MSY(DL LOW) - All Low with 1 stopover. 12.5k DL.

Net: 32.5k DL + 7.5k AS per person. Leverages cheap intra-Alaska fare, open-jaw, and stopover. And it, mostly, works on our schedule. I'd rather not spend 12 hours in Minneapolis on the stopover but it does work.

I'm still hoping to use PM/DM changes to improve it... I'd love to get low up to Alaska and to eliminate the 12 hour layover in MSP. With only 5 segments on the Delta award ticket, I still have one more segment I could possibly throw in. All said though, I think, coming from New Orleans, 40k total is pretty reasonable, 32.5k would be great, and 25k is next to impossible.

SUMMARY
There are really four scenarios.

A) An all low, 6 segment trip possibly using a stopover for 25k.
B) An all low, 7 segment trip for 37.5k.
C) A broken fare at 50k+. Before I knew the limitations, I was regularly hitting 90k-100k/person. 110k/person is a very real possibility.
D) Use the Alaska 7.5k one-way to make it work and get creative with open-jaw and stopover... See my final example above.

Just finding an example of A to prove a successful 25k ticket took a ridiculous amount of work.

I only did the work after several other frustrating experiences using skymiles and finally decided to document this one thoroughly in a letter with screen shots.

Toward the end of the letter, I write the following:

"If it takes 3 calls to the medallion line, 3-4 hours of searching, diamond level calendar access, a search spanning 7 months, and an incredibly methodical approach leveraging the relatively unknown stopover feature of Delta awards to find a single example (with a ridiculous schedule) of a 25,000 mile domestic US ticket just to prove it can technically be done, then something is sorely broken with Skymiles in my humble opinion."

Hope this helps others. And if I'm wrong in any of my conclusions, please correct me. I believe I did tests of each feature (stopover, segments, fare levels, open-jaw) to isolate the effect on the fare but it's possible I missed something or interpreted the result incorrectly.

For what it's worth, log in to your AA account and search for saver level awards from an AA spoke (which MSY is also) to Fairbanks and see what you get... The dates I wanted didn't work but availability was dramatically better. Surely that's a product of both better low availability and lifting the 6 segment limit.

And here I thought I was going to use my Skymiles for domestic trips and save AA for international award cabins... That strategy looks a little more difficult than I thought now.

Last edited by msp2msy; Feb 22, 2012 at 11:19 am Reason: Added "Getting Creative" section
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 2:37 pm
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did you ever want to just HUG a res agent?

Originally Posted by Phil2016
.... I had a great Chisholm agent last night who spent about 30 minutes exploring all of the Alaska availability for me .....
Ditto from me. I rarely have to call (but booking AS award flights on dl.com isn't ready yet) and I'm so thankful every time I get a Chisholm agent. They are willing to work hard to check availability, and I was able to use Skymiles for the AS flights I wanted. Previous calls to other res centers got me nowhere.

It makes you want to just jump through the phone and hug them.
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 3:22 pm
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Originally Posted by msp2msy
PROBLEM - 6 Segment Limit
I don't think the 6 segment award limit has been mentioned here.
There's been some discussion of the fact that a domestic award ticket is limited to two transfers (connections) in each direction, which would equal your six segments.

Originally Posted by msp2msy
GETTING CREATIVE
All those theoretical exercises finally established the rules that I needed to operate within. While Delta's award calendar shows NO possible routes from New Orleans to Fairbanks, I know that it fails to find lots of options so here's what I put together:
Since the award calendar only checks DL availability, unless (1) MSP-FAI is operating and (2) there are award seats available on it, the award calendar will flake out.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 11:39 am
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Originally Posted by mtkeller
There's been some discussion of the fact that a domestic award ticket is limited to two transfers (connections) in each direction, which would equal your six segments.
Good to know it's been mentioned elsewhere. I hadn't seen it nor had I bumped into it before.

Originally Posted by mtkeller
Since the award calendar only checks DL availability, unless (1) MSP-FAI is operating and (2) there are award seats available on it, the award calendar will flake out.
Interesting. I never stumbled onto that flight. Looks like it's mid May to September so it doesn't help me but good to know.

As for the sentence about the award calendar not finding any flights, I understand and chose my wording poorly (and updated my post). I intended to say that a search for a specific date was finding no routes unless constructed via the multi city. I just did about 6 searches further out and did hit some availability but never less than 65k until the MSP-FAI route you mentioned became available.

Pretty frustrating just how much you have to know to produce the ticket...

I'm still hoping that my outbound drops to low for an instant so that I can drop the price and add on the ANC-FAI segment so that I can save my limited AS miles. Unfortunately, it's now trended up to a high ticket so I think I'm stuck with 32.5k DL + 7.5k AS to get it done.
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Old Feb 22, 2012, 1:17 pm
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Originally Posted by bdnyc
Ditto from me. I rarely have to call (but booking AS award flights on dl.com isn't ready yet) and I'm so thankful every time I get a Chisholm agent. They are willing to work hard to check availability, and I was able to use Skymiles for the AS flights I wanted. Previous calls to other res centers got me nowhere.

It makes you want to just jump through the phone and hug them.
I've been able to book AS flights with Delta miles numerous times without calling. The rule is that only low (saver) rewards will show up in the Delta site and these are the only ones that show. I've booked SEA-EWR and SEA-PHX, in both First and Coach awards.
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