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Delta implementing Sky Team rules incorrectly

Delta implementing Sky Team rules incorrectly

Old Nov 26, 2023, 12:13 am
  #1  
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Delta implementing Sky Team rules incorrectly

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I was hoping to get advice from folks who understand the Sky Team rules and also know Delta. For context, I’m a FB platinum member and, as such, hold Sky Team Elite Plus status.

My understanding of the ST rules is that any Elite Plus member must be granted lounge access when travelling on a domestic flight that will then same-day connect to an intl flight on an alliance member.

This evening, I was flying out of SEA to JFK (landing at 6am) followed by a flight from JFK to CDG on AF later that day (4pm).

At the SEA sky club, I was denied access on the basis that “this is not a same day connection”. This is patently false as the connection is happening on the same day. Indeed, with a red eye from SEA it would be impossible for me to land in JFK the day before my flight to Paris.

I have found that DL often search for any reason to deny access to ST elite plus members, despite what the ST rules say.


Can anyone confirm if this indeed went against the ST rules and, if so, who best to direct my complaint to? I’m growing more and more frustrated by the attitude of DL agents who tend to operate with an “I know best” attitude while having zero understanding of Sky Team rules. For example, the agent at Seattle kept asking me if I was in “first class” from JFK - CDG which is completely irrelevant to the ST rules and to the issue at hand. It was clear she had no clue what she was talking about but simply enforcing rules incorrectly.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 7:30 am
  #2  
 
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Delta is The Skyteam as a dominant member, it can afford to implement any rules its management desires.
Very similar to how Washington D.C. defines international policy for the managers of the municipal European countries.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 7:39 am
  #3  
dw
 
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Originally Posted by Fates
At the SEA sky club, I was denied access on the basis that “this is not a same day connection”. This is patently false as the connection is happening on the same day. Indeed, with a red eye from SEA it would be impossible for me to land in JFK the day before my flight to Paris.
I believe there is an argument to be made that the international flight you were connecting to was not on the same day… because technically it was departing on the calendar day after your flight from SEA was departing.

Whether there is any logic to that is another story.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 7:45 am
  #4  
 
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Apparently the SkyTeam lounge access rules are different for US domestic lounge access, as this is from the SkyTeam lounge finder “Lounge access for international First or Business Class ticket holders or SkyTeam Elite Plus Frequent Flyers traveling on an international flight…”

Last edited by DrMilano; Nov 26, 2023 at 3:09 pm
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 7:54 am
  #5  
 
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Also, Delta recently changed the rules for STE+ members traveling on an international flight. Those are no longer allowed entry unless they have another method for entry. I believe the only lounges you will have access to are non-Delta sky club SKYTEAM lounges. e.g. AMS,CDG,
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 8:13 am
  #6  
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Originally Posted by mridley2
Also, Delta recently changed the rules for STE+ members traveling on an international flight. Those are no longer allowed entry unless they have another method for entry. I believe the only lounges you will have access to are non-Delta sky club SKYTEAM lounges. e.g. AMS,CDG,
I believe those rules only apply to Delta’s own STE+ members (Gold medallion and higher) but do not apply to STE+ members from other airline programs.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 8:42 am
  #7  
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As was pointed out in your other thread, your international flight was scheduled to depart the following afternoon, not the same day you were at SEA. You should have, and likely did, have access at JFK.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 12:02 pm
  #8  
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Originally Posted by mridley2
Also, Delta recently changed the rules for STE+ members traveling on an international flight. Those are no longer allowed entry unless they have another method for entry. I believe the only lounges you will have access to are non-Delta sky club SKYTEAM lounges. e.g. AMS,CDG,
This is incorrect but likely the source of the problem. DL has changed rules for its own members but does not have the authority to change the rules for elites from other airlines within the alliance. But, as usual, DL agents have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to Sky Team. Whether this is poor training or, as suggested above, a weird last-gasp imperialistic attitude (where is Brian Cox when you need him?), who knows 🙄

For those saying it has to do with the “same-day” issue, that is an odd interpretation of the rules. Because the flight leaves a couple of hours before midnight is a bizarre reason to deny access when the red eye flight is obviously connecting you to an international flight. This interpretation would lead to all sorts of ridiculous situations - take, for example, the 00:30 AF departure from JFK.

Regardless, the more salient point here is that access is granted inconsistently, and I have certainly also been denied access on flights where there is zero question about it being a “same day” connection. This is a frustrating situation as there is often no recourse at the lounge when faced with agents who have barely heard of Sky Team. You are left with zero recourse and nobody to speak with who has any training on the matter. And, as such, DL gets away with ignoring its responsibilities to the ST alliance.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 12:17 pm
  #9  
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Originally Posted by Fates
For those saying it has to do with the “same-day” issue, that is an odd interpretation of the rules. Because the flight leaves a couple of hours before midnight is a bizarre reason to deny access when the red eye flight is obviously connecting you to an international flight. This interpretation would lead to all sorts of ridiculous situations - take, for example, the 00:30 AF departure from JFK.
Unfortunately your specific itinerary was a bit of an outlier as it was a domestic redeye to JFK, followed by a 10 hour layover before a transatlantic flight. The more common routing would be a morning departure from SEA (where there would be no doubt lounge access is permitted). I don’t think enough people are in this situation for the lounge access rules to be scrutinized by DL for an exception.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 12:33 pm
  #10  
 
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Originally Posted by Fates
For those saying it has to do with the “same-day” issue, that is an odd interpretation of the rules. Because the flight leaves a couple of hours before midnight is a bizarre reason to deny access when the red eye flight is obviously connecting you to an international flight. This interpretation would lead to all sorts of ridiculous situations - take, for example, the 00:30 AF departure from JFK.

Regardless, the more salient point here is that access is granted inconsistently, and I have certainly also been denied access on flights where there is zero question about it being a “same day” connection. This is a frustrating situation as there is often no recourse at the lounge when faced with agents who have barely heard of Sky Team. You are left with zero recourse and nobody to speak with who has any training on the matter. And, as such, DL gets away with ignoring its responsibilities to the ST alliance.
I don't understand why you feel the need to attack the SC rep in this case. They're following the most likely interpretation of the rules based on the words of the policy. Your domestic flight is not connecting to a same day international flight. The fact that *you* think it is an "odd" interpretation isn't particularly relevant. And if you think the wording of the policy should be changed that's on Delta/ST, not this individual SC rep that you continue to attack.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 12:43 pm
  #11  
 
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Not allowing lounge access before a connecting flight that leaves a calendar day before the transoceanic flight is not Delta-specific. I have had the same experience with Westjet and StarAlliance, among others.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 1:55 pm
  #12  
 
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When you enter any SkyClub, you are either scanned in by an agent just outside the entrance (common at JFK, LAX and probably others, particularly during peak periods when access is being restricted due to capacity control), a kiosk inside, or in front of an agent at their desk. If the boarding pass, when scanned, shows NOT QUALIFIED/ENTRY DECLINED or something similar, then that’s too bad. Trying to argue your way in is totally disrespectful, so unless you have a DL AmEx Reserve/Platinum Card, or a SkyClub Membership, then accept the rules and move on! Why people don’t understand this is beyond comprehension.
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Last edited by audidudi; Nov 26, 2023 at 2:11 pm
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 2:52 pm
  #13  
 
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How was this ticketed? On an itinerary where nonstops and much shorter layovers are available, I can't help wondering if this is actually ticketed as a fare break with separate SEA-JFK and JFK-CDG components. The issue could be that DL's computers saw this as a standalone SEA-JFK flight, not as the first leg of a SEA-JFK-CDG connecting itinerary. It's entirely possible the agent was just grasping at straws to explain what the computer said.
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Old Nov 26, 2023, 3:29 pm
  #14  
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As the OP posted a duplicate thread in the AF Forum, which has had more responses, I am locking this thread and ask that you continue to follow the discussion Delta Systematically Refusing to follow ST rules
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