Back-To Back Ticketing Across SkyTeam Carriers
Aug 16, 23, 12:35 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 15
Back-To Back Ticketing Across SkyTeam Carriers
Hello all -
I almost booked this today, before realizing it *might* be against the rules, so wanted to gauge the thoughts on this.
Want to go RT JFK > CDG 10/22 - 10/27 in BIZ.
The price for what I want at last glance was $6k
However, I can book TWO round trip Business class flights for $4k, with one flight being
Itinerary 1:
10-22 JFK to CDG
1-1 CDG - JFK
Itinerary 2
10-27 CDG to JFK
12-30 JFK to CDG
Now, I think if this is ALL Delta, then Im violating the rules. However, what if I book one of the flights on Delta, and the other on KLM (for example). Does it matter who the operating carrier is?
I almost booked this today, before realizing it *might* be against the rules, so wanted to gauge the thoughts on this.
Want to go RT JFK > CDG 10/22 - 10/27 in BIZ.
The price for what I want at last glance was $6k
However, I can book TWO round trip Business class flights for $4k, with one flight being
Itinerary 1:
10-22 JFK to CDG
1-1 CDG - JFK
Itinerary 2
10-27 CDG to JFK
12-30 JFK to CDG
Now, I think if this is ALL Delta, then Im violating the rules. However, what if I book one of the flights on Delta, and the other on KLM (for example). Does it matter who the operating carrier is?
Aug 16, 23, 2:06 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 15
Aug 16, 23, 2:41 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,135
Even if booked all on DL, they typically don't go after such practices (especially on a one-off basis). But, yes, this would meet definition of back-to-back ticketing (defeating min stay requirements for cheaper fares). Although what is the point of 1 day stay in CDG?
Aug 16, 23, 2:51 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: LHR / BHX / MAN / ATL
Programs: DL DM MM - IHG Diamond
Posts: 4,028
The CoC on delta.com states:
I would argue that you are not attempting to circumvent fare rules (minimum stay requirements, etc) but are just taking advantage of different fares from different points of departure. I'm not sure if DL would agree with that argument or if you want to take that chance. I'd probably book one ticket with DL and one with KL.
Delta prohibits ticketing practices intended to circumvent the published fare that Delta intends to offer for your true itinerary. These practices include:
1) Back to Back Ticketing - The purchase or usage of two or more tickets issued at round trip fares, or the combination of two or more round trip fares end to end on the same ticket for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
1) Back to Back Ticketing - The purchase or usage of two or more tickets issued at round trip fares, or the combination of two or more round trip fares end to end on the same ticket for the purpose of circumventing minimum stay requirements.
Aug 16, 23, 3:00 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: LHR / BHX / MAN / ATL
Programs: DL DM MM - IHG Diamond
Posts: 4,028
BTW, I did engage in back-to-back ticketing once several years ago, albeit unintentionally. I bought a ticket for a long weekend AAA-BBB-AAA traveling Thursday and returning on Monday. A couple of weeks later, I got a gig at AAA for the Saturday night. So I bought a second ticket BBB-AAA-BBB traveling on Saturday and returning on Sunday. Competition from WN on the route meant that there were no Saturday night stay requirements, so I wasn't violating any rules in that regard. Nothing happened to me, and I suspect nothing would happen to the OP. But I also agree with others that it's probably best if this is a one-off.
Aug 16, 23, 3:00 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,135
The CoC on delta.com states:
I would argue that you are not attempting to circumvent fare rules (minimum stay requirements, etc) but are just taking advantage of different fares from different points of departure. I'm not sure if DL would agree with that argument or if you want to take that chance. I'd probably book one ticket with DL and one with KL.
I would argue that you are not attempting to circumvent fare rules (minimum stay requirements, etc) but are just taking advantage of different fares from different points of departure. I'm not sure if DL would agree with that argument or if you want to take that chance. I'd probably book one ticket with DL and one with KL.
Last edited by xliioper; Aug 16, 23 at 3:05 pm
Aug 16, 23, 3:03 pm
#9
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: LHR / BHX / MAN / ATL
Programs: DL DM MM - IHG Diamond
Posts: 4,028
The two tickets are defeating min stay requirements for cheaper international D1 fares. Booking two tickets (one in reverse direction) is exactly how you defeat min stay requirements with back-to-back ticketing. A 10/22 - 10/27 trip doesn't meet 7 day min stay requirements on cheaper D1 fares. A 10/22 - 1/1 trip does.
Aug 16, 23, 3:23 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,064
These would be nested tickets vs back to back, and yes if all on DL they would definitely violate the rules. But if they are on different carriers (AF in this case*), I don't think you would have any issue, especially if one off. Then again, safest bet is to put one on another alliance (AA or UA).
*AF seems better to me also since it's CDG and DL<-->KL ticketing seems to have a closer relationship... for whatever that's worth. May be outdated on that though.
*AF seems better to me also since it's CDG and DL<-->KL ticketing seems to have a closer relationship... for whatever that's worth. May be outdated on that though.
Aug 16, 23, 6:34 pm
#11
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NYC/DC
Programs: AA,SPG, Delta, Amtrak, JB
Posts: 464
Hello all -
I almost booked this today, before realizing it *might* be against the rules, so wanted to gauge the thoughts on this.
Want to go RT JFK > CDG 10/22 - 10/27 in BIZ.
The price for what I want at last glance was $6k
However, I can book TWO round trip Business class flights for $4k, with one flight being
Itinerary 1:
10-22 JFK to CDG
1-1 CDG - JFK
Itinerary 2
10-27 CDG to JFK
12-30 JFK to CDG
Now, I think if this is ALL Delta, then Im violating the rules. However, what if I book one of the flights on Delta, and the other on KLM (for example). Does it matter who the operating carrier is?
I almost booked this today, before realizing it *might* be against the rules, so wanted to gauge the thoughts on this.
Want to go RT JFK > CDG 10/22 - 10/27 in BIZ.
The price for what I want at last glance was $6k
However, I can book TWO round trip Business class flights for $4k, with one flight being
Itinerary 1:
10-22 JFK to CDG
1-1 CDG - JFK
Itinerary 2
10-27 CDG to JFK
12-30 JFK to CDG
Now, I think if this is ALL Delta, then Im violating the rules. However, what if I book one of the flights on Delta, and the other on KLM (for example). Does it matter who the operating carrier is?
Aug 16, 23, 6:44 pm
#12
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: Alaska 75K, Delta Silver, UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Platinum + LT Gold
Posts: 9,636
I have done this many times, and I am in the middle of another one right now; although my current one is with different carriers, as some are awards, others are paid. Never had an issue.
Aug 16, 23, 6:46 pm
#13
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,889
The "rules" are the airline's, not immutable laws brought down the mountain by Moses on stone tablets. One can easily interpret the Minimum Stay requirement as the minimum to qualify for that ticket. Would it be against the "rules" for you to take the train to London and fly the next day to JFK on BA or VS or even DL on a different ticket?
We were supposed to be getting deregulation, but in reality, there are plenty of regulations, just self-regulation.
We were supposed to be getting deregulation, but in reality, there are plenty of regulations, just self-regulation.
Aug 16, 23, 7:56 pm
#14
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,803
No. That wouldn't solve the minimum stay problem, so it's also irrelevant to the discussion
Aug 16, 23, 8:28 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: UA, AS
Posts: 2,355
Delta's tickets have Delta rules which only apply to tickets either booked on a Delta ticket or, possibly, flights booked as a DL codeshare on another airline's ticket. For flights neither ticketed by Delta nor included on a ticket including a DL flight number, Delta rules do not apply.
