Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

Cancellation Fee - JFK to MEX Flight Booked on AM via Delta (006 stock)

Cancellation Fee - JFK to MEX Flight Booked on AM via Delta (006 stock)

Old Jun 13, 2023, 10:12 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 250
Cancellation Fee - JFK to MEX Flight Booked on AM via Delta (006 stock)

I have a flight this weekend to MEX which I'm trying to change. Booked via Delta on Aeromexico metal, coded as AM due to the FAA issues with Mexico that disallow formal code shares. Last minute conflict came up and I cannot go. I plan on rescheduling later this summer. I tried to cancel online and it's showing a $200 cancellation fee so the eCredit is $200 less than the fare. I tried calling Delta, but the wait is 5+ hours presumably due to IT/phone system issues reported separately. I used the SMS feature and the agent is insisting that there is a fee and some markets are exceptions even though ex-US international flights on the web site clearly show no cancellation fees. No waivers available.

From the web site:

Cancellation fees are not applicable for the following tickets:

  • Delta Main Cabin and above tickets for travel within the U.S., Puerto Rico and USVI
  • Delta Main Cabin and above tickets for travel originating from the United States, Canada, Europe, Africa or the Caribbean to anywhere in the world (including flights operated by joint venture and codeshare partners)
Aeromexico is a joint venture partner. The flight is originating in JFK. And it's main cabin (not basic economy). Anyone else had issues with this? If Delta can get their phone service sorted, I'll call. If I continue to have problems I guess I will file a DOT complaint.

Thanks,
Dave
dave456 is offline  
Old Jun 13, 2023, 10:22 pm
  #2  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SFO/DTW
Programs: DL PM 0.5MM, Hyatt Globalist, HHonors Gold, SPG Plat, Marriott Gold, Avis PC, National EE, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,988
IME - I rebooked my LAX-MEX flight that was ticked on DL 006, but operated on AM. Got the full credit back. Rebooked it as the fare prices dropped. All completed online via website. This was done around early May this year.
kxc262 is offline  
Old Jun 13, 2023, 10:59 pm
  #3  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by kxc262
IME - I rebooked my LAX-MEX flight that was ticked on DL 006, but operated on AM. Got the full credit back. Rebooked it as the fare prices dropped. All completed online via website. This was done around early May this year.
Thanks, well it seems they are selectively changing the rules. I called again and had a more reasonable wait time. The agent checked with ticketing who said because the underlying Aeromexico rules require a $200 fee, Delta will charge a $200 fee. I said this is unacceptable when Delta's is the seller and the web site and rules give no indication of this (and state above that the flight would be eligible). She tried to transfer me to a supervisor but due to the ongoing phone issues it said the supervisor desk was closed. Oh well, I guess I'll try again tomorrow and if that doesn't work I'll go down the complaint/DOT complaint route.
dave456 is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 3:55 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,241
Originally Posted by dave456
Thanks, well it seems they are selectively changing the rules. I called again and had a more reasonable wait time. The agent checked with ticketing who said because the underlying Aeromexico rules require a $200 fee, Delta will charge a $200 fee. I said this is unacceptable when Delta's is the seller and the web site and rules give no indication of this (and state above that the flight would be eligible). She tried to transfer me to a supervisor but due to the ongoing phone issues it said the supervisor desk was closed. Oh well, I guess I'll try again tomorrow and if that doesn't work I'll go down the complaint/DOT complaint route.
DL is simply acting as a travel agent. You didn't buy a DL fare. You bought from AM but not directly from them.

If you read the fare rules when purchasing it was stated.
ecaarch, Adam1222 and DiverDave like this.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 3:58 am
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,293
The change fee is indicated in fare rules found on delta.com.



These fares are AM fares and are actually AM "Classic" fares and not DL "Main Cabin" fares. Although I'd agree that DL could do better at pointing out their change fee waiver policy does not apply to partner fares.

flyerCO, hhdl, RobertS975 and 1 others like this.

Last edited by xliioper; Jun 14, 2023 at 4:09 am
xliioper is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 5:48 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 237
Not the OP -- I see that the screenshot above shows the flight number as AM405 (hence an AM fare, not a DL fare).

Is it safe to say that if a partner-operated flight does have a Delta flight number, then Delta's rules apply? (I'm specifically asking as I am considering purchasing an Air France-operated flight through Delta, with a Delta flight number -- i.e. buying "DL 8744," which is AF's flight 10 -- in order to take advantage of Delta's no-change-fee policy, as I am US-based.)

Or can the fare rules also vary for partner-operated flights, even if purchased with a Delta flight number on Delta's website?
andrewesque is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 6:37 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,241
Originally Posted by andrewesque
Not the OP -- I see that the screenshot above shows the flight number as AM405 (hence an AM fare, not a DL fare).

Is it safe to say that if a partner-operated flight does have a Delta flight number, then Delta's rules apply? (I'm specifically asking as I am considering purchasing an Air France-operated flight through Delta, with a Delta flight number -- i.e. buying "DL 8744," which is AF's flight 10 -- in order to take advantage of Delta's no-change-fee policy, as I am US-based.)

Or can the fare rules also vary for partner-operated flights, even if purchased with a Delta flight number on Delta's website?
AF/KL don't have change fees unless I've missed them bringing back.

However, yes on general if DL is selling a DL coded, it is a DL fare. Regardless, always check fare ruled.

If OP had bought DTW-MEX (via JFK) the AM flight would've been still been AM coded. However as there would be a DL flight involved DL would be selling their own fare. This is key, you generally need at least one DL operated flight for DL to be selling their own fare.

Again always check the fare rule.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 7:02 am
  #8  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by xliioper
The change fee is indicated in fare rules found on delta.com.



These fares are AM fares and are actually AM "Classic" fares and not DL "Main Cabin" fares. Although I'd agree that DL could do better at pointing out their change fee waiver policy does not apply to partner fares.

Thanks. Looking in the fare rules, it's difficult to even find that and not at all mentioned in the fare summary. Regardless, that conflicts with the general guidance on Delta's web site which indicates: Cancellation fees are not applicable for the following tickets:
  • Delta Main Cabin and above tickets for travel originating from the United States, Canada, Europe, Africa or the Caribbean to anywhere in the world (including flights operated by joint venture and codeshare partners)
It's still a 006 ticket (Delta ticket) and sold as if it's a Delta ticket. It's Classic which is equivalent to Main Cabin. Delta also lists the operating airline term for Main Cabin for code share partners like Virgin and Air France and they do allow cancellation without fee. It may not be a code share but it's a joint venture partner. The only reason Delta does this for Aeromexico is because I believe the FAA safety rating for Mexico disallows Delta to list their code. After all Delta doesn't sell tickets on 006 stock to my knowledge outside of this special case for Aeromexico. I presume "joint venture" in this case would apply to an Aeromexico ticket since Delta/Aeromexico still has a joint venture ticket. It even says in the guidance that tickets originating in Mexico are subject to a $200 fee but says nothing about US departing flights to Mexico. In any case, very misleading and I would argue Delta should call Aeromexico out as an exception to this policy if it is an exception. They've carved out all sorts of other special provisions due to to code share limitation for Aeromexico (i.e. MQD exceptions).

Dave
dave456 is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 7:18 am
  #9  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,241
Originally Posted by dave456
Thanks. Looking in the fare rules, it's difficult to even find that and not at all mentioned in the fare summary. Regardless, that conflicts with the general guidance on Delta's web site which indicates: Cancellation fees are not applicable for the following tickets:
  • Delta Main Cabin and above tickets for travel originating from the United States, Canada, Europe, Africa or the Caribbean to anywhere in the world (including flights operated by joint venture and codeshare partners)
It's still a 006 ticket (Delta ticket) and sold as if it's a Delta ticket. It's Classic which is equivalent to Main Cabin. Delta also lists the operating airline term for Main Cabin for code share partners like Virgin and Air France and they do allow cancellation without fee. It may not be a code share but it's a joint venture partner. The only reason Delta does this for Aeromexico is because I believe the FAA safety rating for Mexico disallows Delta to list their code. After all Delta doesn't sell tickets on 006 stock to my knowledge outside of this special case for Aeromexico. I presume "joint venture" in this case would apply to an Aeromexico ticket since Delta/Aeromexico still has a joint venture ticket. It even says in the guidance that tickets originating in Mexico are subject to a $200 fee but says nothing about US departing flights to Mexico. In any case, very misleading and I would argue Delta should call Aeromexico out as an exception to this policy if it is an exception. They've carved out all sorts of other special provisions due to to code share limitation for Aeromexico (i.e. MQD exceptions).

Dave
Can agree confusing. However you generally with most airlines, need at least one flight operated (or in some case simply marketed) by them on ticket, for it to be their own fare.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 7:18 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by flyerCO
AF/KL don't have change fees unless I've missed them bringing back.
Ah, that's good to know! (I was a bit vague, it's not so much the change fee that I care about -- though I do care about that -- but more so getting a Delta e-credit instead of an AF e-credit if I have to cancel. As I'm US-based, presumably if I am cancelling a trip to France, an e-credit on Air France is not very much use to me.)
andrewesque is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 7:37 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,241
Originally Posted by andrewesque
Ah, that's good to know! (I was a bit vague, it's not so much the change fee that I care about -- though I do care about that -- but more so getting a Delta e-credit instead of an AF e-credit if I have to cancel. As I'm US-based, presumably if I am cancelling a trip to France, an e-credit on Air France is not very much use to me.)
It can be used for any DL flight. However if booking a strictly domestic ticket, it does involve more work than otherwise.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 7:58 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NY/CT
Programs: DL PM, Marriott PM
Posts: 263
Originally Posted by dave456
Thanks. Looking in the fare rules, it's difficult to even find that and not at all mentioned in the fare summary. Regardless, that conflicts with the general guidance on Delta's web site which indicates: Cancellation fees are not applicable for the following tickets:
  • Delta Main Cabin and above tickets for travel originating from the United States, Canada, Europe, Africa or the Caribbean to anywhere in the world (including flights operated by joint venture and codeshare partners)
It's still a 006 ticket (Delta ticket) and sold as if it's a Delta ticket. It's Classic which is equivalent to Main Cabin. Delta also lists the operating airline term for Main Cabin for code share partners like Virgin and Air France and they do allow cancellation without fee. It may not be a code share but it's a joint venture partner. The only reason Delta does this for Aeromexico is because I believe the FAA safety rating for Mexico disallows Delta to list their code. After all Delta doesn't sell tickets on 006 stock to my knowledge outside of this special case for Aeromexico. I presume "joint venture" in this case would apply to an Aeromexico ticket since Delta/Aeromexico still has a joint venture ticket. It even says in the guidance that tickets originating in Mexico are subject to a $200 fee but says nothing about US departing flights to Mexico. In any case, very misleading and I would argue Delta should call Aeromexico out as an exception to this policy if it is an exception. They've carved out all sorts of other special provisions due to to code share limitation for Aeromexico (i.e. MQD exceptions).

Dave
I understand your frustration, but you did not purchase a "Delta Main Cabin" fare. You purchased an AM fare on the delta website. The underlying fare rules, which I agree are difficult to navigate, state the fee. I have found the easiest way to sort through them is to ctrl+f and search "fee" "penalty" and then it will usually (eventually) bring you to the cancellation section, which you can review yourself. It's a good habit to get into any time you're booking with an airline you don't frequently fly with, or you're booking through a third party (which is what this case is, AM metal, AM flight numbers, delta ticket issuer). I've gotten burned more than once, hence the habit. In my own case, I eventually learned that for most of our corporate international business fares (across multiple carriers), the fully refundable price was equal to the non-refundable + $500 change fee. So usually it made more sense to fully refundable.
hhdl and Adam1222 like this.
Schmoops is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 10:18 am
  #13  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by Schmoops
I understand your frustration, but you did not purchase a "Delta Main Cabin" fare. You purchased an AM fare on the delta website. The underlying fare rules, which I agree are difficult to navigate, state the fee. I have found the easiest way to sort through them is to ctrl+f and search "fee" "penalty" and then it will usually (eventually) bring you to the cancellation section, which you can review yourself. It's a good habit to get into any time you're booking with an airline you don't frequently fly with, or you're booking through a third party (which is what this case is, AM metal, AM flight numbers, delta ticket issuer). I've gotten burned more than once, hence the habit. In my own case, I eventually learned that for most of our corporate international business fares (across multiple carriers), the fully refundable price was equal to the non-refundable + $500 change fee. So usually it made more sense to fully refundable.
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely be more diligent in the future (and will check the full fare rules and not the summary which often cuts off lines). I called Delta again and the agent pulled in the escalation deck. Without hesitation they offered to cancel for a full value eCredit. I think they understood they have misleading info on their web site since the cancellation policy clearly calls out flights originating from the United States on joint venture partners. The fares are also listed under "Main Cabin" when you purchase and appear no different than Delta flights. I think this is another complication of their interim solution to sell Aeromexico flights since the FAA safety rating does not allow US airlines to place their code on Mexican airlines.

Interestingly in the fare rules under cancellation it states: "CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW. WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER. ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES - CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE USD 200.00. CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY. NOTE - FIRST CHANGE ALLOWED FREE OF CHARGE. . - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. FIRST CHANGE ALLOWED FREE OF CHARGE . OTHERWISE . TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. IF TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION IS NOT CHANGED 3 HOURS PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ REBOOKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND THE TICKET HAS NO VALUE."

Thus I think you could argue they should at least allow me to change to a new flight without charge. When I tried to change online to a flight in September, it also tried to deduct a $200 fee.

Lesson learned and I urge caution for anyone else purchasing Aeromexico tickets on Delta's web site. I'm not sure if they granted me a one time exception or if they'd do the same if it happened again - this is probably the first time in a while that I've outright cancelled a non-award flight (outside of the 24 hour window) versus doing a change, so I wouldn't be flagged as anyone taking advantage of the policy. Clearly they have some liability for misleading information on their cancellation policy unless they add an exception for Aeromexico which I think they should do if this is going to continue to be an issue. Ironically they do make an exception for tickets originating in Mexico - it specifically calls out a $200 fee.

Dave
Warriorconcept likes this.
dave456 is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 10:20 am
  #14  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Hilton Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,241
Originally Posted by dave456
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely be more diligent in the future (and will check the full fare rules and not the summary which often cuts off lines). I called Delta again and the agent pulled in the escalation deck. Without hesitation they offered to cancel for a full value eCredit. I think they understood they have misleading info on their web site since the cancellation policy clearly calls out flights originating from the United States on joint venture partners. The fares are also listed under "Main Cabin" when you purchase and appear no different than Delta flights. I think this is another complication of their interim solution to sell Aeromexico flights since the FAA safety rating does not allow US airlines to place their code on Mexican airlines.

Interestingly in the fare rules under cancellation it states: "CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE IN CASE OF CANCEL/NO-SHOW. WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER. ORIGINATING THE UNITED STATES - CHANGES ANY TIME CHARGE USD 200.00. CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNTS APPLY. NOTE - FIRST CHANGE ALLOWED FREE OF CHARGE. . - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. FIRST CHANGE ALLOWED FREE OF CHARGE . OTHERWISE . TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. IF TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION IS NOT CHANGED 3 HOURS PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ REBOOKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND THE TICKET HAS NO VALUE."

Thus I think you could argue they should at least allow me to change to a new flight without charge. When I tried to change online to a flight in September, it also tried to deduct a $200 fee.

Lesson learned and I urge caution for anyone else purchasing Aeromexico tickets on Delta's web site. I'm not sure if they granted me a one time exception or if they'd do the same if it happened again - this is probably the first time in a while that I've outright cancelled a non-award flight (outside of the 24 hour window) versus doing a change, so I wouldn't be flagged as anyone taking advantage of the policy. Clearly they have some liability for misleading information on their cancellation policy unless they add an exception for Aeromexico which I think they should do if this is going to continue to be an issue. Ironically they do make an exception for tickets originating in Mexico - it specifically calls out a $200 fee.

Dave
AM does indeed allow 1 free change normally. The online DL system likely doesn't understand this.
flyerCO is offline  
Old Jun 14, 2023, 5:44 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC/PHX
Programs: IATA, Sabre, AvgeekAgent
Posts: 1,963
Originally Posted by dave456
IF TICKETED FLIGHT RESERVATION IS NOT CHANGED 3 HOURS PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE TIME/ REBOOKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND THE TICKET HAS NO VALUE.
Note that AM is very strict regarding this rule. DL may be able to waive it, but it is safest to exchange the ticket (e-credit) for a new itinerary prior to your originally ticketed departure date/time.
dave456 and hhdl like this.
NYC Flyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.